Ireland politics (Part 1)

[Tassotti]

you are some man, a legend

[farmerinthecity]

@HBV

know what im talking about. the child that was at that moment in time unwanted by the hormonal mother who was carrying it went on to have a spectacular childhood with a fantastic mother.

‘Hormonal’ mother.

‘Fantastic’ mother.

You really are some cunt.

[anon61956325]

Don’t mind that clown making up stories – He came out with another wonderful anecdote from his past life around the time of the gay marriage vote - having another kid from a mistress or something… he miraculously has all these wonderful life events to show he is the voice of authority on the matter at hand.

[Matty_Hislop]

Bullshit alert!!

[anon61956325]

And it’s exactly why all/any debate should stop dead … you just have gimps spouting hateful tripe like that for their own twisted fun… I should have known better really.

[HBV]

an awful lot of the righteousness crew have great difficulty accepting some home truths

[Nembo_Kid]

They want to be able to delete the consequences of their irresponsible actions. Cowards, one and all.

[Nembo_Kid]

You’re one of the gimps shouting loudest. You just don’t like having your intolerant views challenged.

[Juhniallio]

@Sidney

Em, it’s exactly what you’re doing. At least take ownership of it.

Juhniallio:

Wrong. He had had a forwward and backward volley of bullshit with nembo and julio . It descended into his ‘would you say that to a rape victim’ comment.

@Sidney

Hilarious irony, as you continually decide that you are the authority on what a person said or meant. Your regular deliberate misinterpretation of posts gives you endless pleasure.

I’m well able to read and can understand what posters are doing when they say certain things, pal.

And I can see exactly what you’re doing here.

Bollox. You love telling people what they’ve just said and how it means they must think this or that. I’m sure it passes the time though.

@Sidney

Quite ironic from the person that is up on a “high horse” trying to shut down debate, most likely because they feel (correctly) they are a bad writer and would like to steer discussion away from awkward subjects which require detail.

Wrong again. I’m trying to stop the debate from descending into farce and slogan shouting. As it did and as it does regulatrly, not just here but on national tv/radio etc. The bones of this debate should be framed by the thousands of regular cases of abortion and not framed by the few.

No doubt you’ll bore me and others to death arguing about this over the next few months so I’ll lay it out for you what I think. I’d go for abortion on demand with a cooling off period after the booking, to let a woman change her mind. I would have no cooling off period in the case of fatal foetal abnormalities. I think women shouldn’t have to make that journey to England for it for any reaason and and that an unwanted baby more often than not will lead to an unhappy childhood and a shit life. I think our state should care more about the kids we already have than the unborn. Sure the world is overflowing with people anyway, we don’t need any more. I think loads of lads talking bollocks about what should in the end be a woman’s decision is fucking stupid.
I think a load of student activist ( and yourself obviously) types will see this as an amazing chance to change Ireland but it won’t, it’ll just make the people who have abortions have them in better circumstances. I think that culturally abortion is frowned upon in this country so much of the sorrow/hurt around unwanted pregnancies will remain and there won’t ever be women having abortions on tap or as a contraceptive choice as has been suggested.
I think 95% of people who have had children would not consider an abortion under any circumstances.
So I’d say I’ll be voting yes, but it won’t surprise me in the slightest if it doesn’t pass.

[anon61956325]

Within the thousands of regular cases there’s still a whole host of factors at play away from the extreme - Mental health, financial, young girls of sixteen making mistakes, single mothers choosing not to have disabled children as they couldn’t care for them etc etc – They are all minority cases in isolation but put together make up the thousands of regular cases… I agree with a lot of what you’re saying but no case is just black and white/ regular.

[glasagusban]

@Juhniallio

It descended into his ‘would you say that to a rape victim’ comment.

Is this the me being glib you were on about? That was the original question he was asked by choco.

[HBV]

give us the proper breakdown there, you seem to have all the information but are reluctant to give us the figures

[anon61956325]

Why don’t you make up a story with the breakdown, mate … you’re great at that.

[HBV]

i dont have the breakdown but you seem to know the who what and whens of abortions required in ireland

id love you to share it

[Juhniallio]

Apologies so @glasagusban . Let the tfk record state that the glib playground argument was first made by @ChocolateMice and then by you.

[anon61956325]

Go find it yourself… All the Infirmation is out there.

[Juhniallio]

@ChocolateMice

Why don’t you make up a story with the breakdown, mate … you’re great at that.

In fairness to @HBV, there’s plenty of aul lads with kids on here. Many have already said they have experiences of miscarriage so you’d imagine a few have experienced the fatal foetal abnormality type abortion problem as well. It would be strange if there was no-one who had had an abortion type scenario in their past, going on probability.

[farmerinthecity]

@Juhniallio

I think a load of student activist ( and yourself obviously) types will see this as an amazing chance to change Ireland but it won’t, it’ll just make the people who have abortions have them in better circumstances. I think that culturally abortion is frowned upon in this country so much of the sorrow/hurt around unwanted pregnancies will remain and there won’t ever be women having abortions on tap or as a contraceptive choice as has been suggested.

I think 95% of people who have had children would not consider an abortion under any circumstances.

So I’d say I’ll be voting yes, but it won’t surprise me in the slightest if it doesn’t pass.

I agree with this.

We already have abortion in the sense of an ‘Irish solution to an Irish problem’ - i.e. Irish people have the right to travel. All this will do, obviously other than the changing the official State position, will mean that Irish people won’t have to travel.

I also don’t think it is going to be a doomsday scenario of mass abortions occurring if this is passed, despite what the pro life side would want you to believe.

Personally, I would come down on the side of having abortion. I don’t think it is possible to have a grey area on it and there are clearly cases where even the fiercest critic would admit that abortion is justified such as rape, life of the mother in danger etc. With regard to abortion on demand, it is simply not true to paint a mother as deserving of their lot even if they had consensual sex. We are sexual beings and to somehow punish someone for engaging in something which comes naturally just isn’t fair - particularly considering that all the pressure of carrying it comes down on the side of one sex.

Obviously no one wants to see abortions being carried out en masse but I really think that is unlikely to happen as we are talking a few specific cases where such a course of action is considered by a couple.

[glasagusban]

There’s nothing glib about it. If you want to have a hardliners view like Nimbly you should be able to stand over it. Asking how you would communicate it to a rape victim is not glib, it is deadly serious, and intrinsic to the discussion.

[Sidney]

@Juhniallio

Wrong. He had had a forwward and backward volley of bullshit with nembo and julio . It descended into his ‘would you say that to a rape victim’ comment.

Would they?

@Juhniallio

Bollox. You love telling people what they’ve just said and how it means they must think this or that. I’m sure it passes the time though.

Argument is about following through the logical implications of what people say, getting people to logically develop their points based on what they write and teasing out an argument.

If people want to ignore the logical implications of what they say, that’s not my problem, it’s theirs, and it’s a common problem with “debate” on this forum, especially on subjects such as this one and the George Hook one.

It’s a problem for anti-choice campaigners in general, such as when the failure of Peter Mathews and John Bruton to properly think through the logical implications of their position as regards the X-Case legislation was glaringly exposed back in 2013.

@Juhniallio

No doubt you’ll bore me and others to death arguing about this over the next few months so I’ll lay it out for you what I think. I’d go for abortion on demand with a cooling off period after the booking, to let a woman change her mind. I would have no cooling off period in the case of fatal foetal abnormalities. I think women shouldn’t have to make that journey to England for it for any reaason and and that an unwanted baby more often than not will lead to an unhappy childhood and a shit life. I think our state should care more about the kids we already have than the unborn. Sure the world is overflowing with people anyway, we don’t need any more. I think loads of lads talking bollocks about what should in the end be a woman’s decision is fucking stupid.

I think a load of student activist ( and yourself obviously) types will see this as an amazing chance to change Ireland but it won’t, it’ll just make the people who have abortions have them in better circumstances. I think that culturally abortion is frowned upon in this country so much of the sorrow/hurt around unwanted pregnancies will remain and there won’t ever be women having abortions on tap or as a contraceptive choice as has been suggested.

Fair enough, but the bit about “student activism” was really boring. I don’t agree with your concept of a “cooling off” period and I don’t particularly like your phraseology either. It smacks a bit of “a lad talking bollocks about what should be a woman’s decision.”

@Juhniallio

I think 95% of people who have had children would not consider an abortion under any circumstances.

So I’d say I’ll be voting yes, but it won’t surprise me in the slightest if it doesn’t pass.

That’s a rather presumptuous statement of what people think. Do you mean “not consider an abortion under any circumstances” as it relates to themselves, or “not consider an abortion under any circumstances” in relation to others who may wish to have one, and prohibition of such?

Who knows, maybe you’re right if talking about the former, but I imagine you’re well off the reality in regard to the latter.

As I’ve already said, I’d expect this to be a 50 point something to 49 point something job, but that’s just a guess.