Ireland v Germany

1

So now that we have the preliminaries out of the way what would be your team for the German game assuming everyone is available?

I’d make a couple of changes: I’d drop O’Shea or Ward, probably the former, and start Coleman. He’s not as defensive minded as either of the other two but O’Shea in particular has been really poor defensively in recent matches and there’s no room for him at centre back at the moment and he doesn’t deserve his place there ahead of O’Dea, never mind Dunne and St Ledger.

I’d be bringing Andrews back for McCarthy, and have Whelan sitting on Ozil. I may even consider going for 3 in there with one of the strikers dropping out but I don’t think we have much hope of matching them in midfield so both central players will have to play very deep to look after Ozil and the wider support attackers moving in centrally.

Long and Doyle have both made a case for inclusion on the basis of tonight with Doyle certainly impressive at the weekend. Walters hasn’t been as dynamic in recent games and I’d drop him and have him to come on with 20 minutes to go if required. Probably start Doyle alongside Keane so with McClean getting Cox’s place on the wing.

Loads of debatable decisions there and there are so many players who are much of a muchness it’s unreal. You could make an argument for any 1, 2 or 3 of the 5 strikers. Andrews is probably the only central midfielder who deserves his place but nobody else has shown enough and unless Meyler gets games in the meantime he’s not going to be the answer.

2

For a game like this I would like to see Kelly start at right back with Coleman ahead of him on the right wing. While I think O’Shea’s days as a starter in the side are coming to an end thankfully I’d be surprised if he is dropped for this game. Could well be his last one as a first choice starter

3

Keane has to be dropped as do both full backs. JOS needs to be moved centre back next to Dunne if he is back in time.

Whelan is nowhere near good enough either but with Gibson doing a runner we don’t seem to have any alternatives but maybe moving Ward, Wilson or Clark in there.

4

I don’t think there’s any chance O’Shea will be dropped but I cannot stand the sight of his ineptitude and laziness anymore.

That isn’t a bad shout on Kelly and Coleman but it’s probably too risky to try it in this game. The Germans are lightyears ahead of us technically and in terms of fluidity and movement so it’s imperative we keep a defensive shape and try and sit in and then counter attack through our wingers when we can.

It’s not a pretty formula obviously but we do have a decent goalscoring record over the past few years and I sometimes think Trap gets accused of more negativity than is actually the case. Two strikers isn’t negative and while we don’t give ourselves much opportunity to retain the ball I think Trap has decided that converting chances is more important than trying to be equitable in possession so we go with two or three strikers on the pitch.

We could try and go for a 4-5-1 against Germany but we still won’t have much ball and our midfield will be really deep anyway so we’d end up creating next to nothing. It might possibly free up our wingers a little bit but that would mean playing one man alone up front (something only Doyle is in any way suited to) and would remove most of the chances of a striker getting in the box as he’ll be stuck out in the channels the whole time.

5

O’Shea and Dunne have been our two worst defenders in the last three or four games they’ve played. Dunne at least earned the right to make mistakes but putting O’Shea at centre back ahead of St Ledger was a silly suggestion 3 years ago and remains a silly suggestion. I’d say you can’t wait for the day he makes a big mistake and you can say you were right for the last 3 years despite his solid performances in the interim.

I do think putting Ward in central midfielder is an even more bizarre idea though.

6

Long is capable of playing as a lone striker in my opinion. He does it regularly with success at club level.

7

You cannot possibly be advocating starting Whelan and Andrews in centre mid again Rocko. It was a fucking disaster in the euros and the Germans would play rings around these plodders. I think we’re fucked anyway no matter what we do but I’d love to see Trap be a little inventive with the team instead of trying to roll out the failed formula of the euros.

8

Can we not have another thread about a shut down website? Ffs sake.

9

I don’t really know what the alternatives are thanks to Gibson’s huff. Probably involves putting McCarthy in there but I honestly think we’ll be more negative in a 4-5-1 (it’s a more defensive formation obviously) and I don’t think we’ll get any joy in keeping the ball against that German midfield.

The advantage it would give us is maybe freeing up the wingers but against Germany I actually think that’s where we might get some joy anyway as there’s a bit of a gap between the full backs and the wide attackers.

Germany hold their roles a bit more obviously than Spain and are a bit more athletic but predictable in their passing. If we keep the two central midfielders back they should be able to screen the defence and look after Ozil and I don’t think putting another lad sitting on Schweinsteiger and Khedira would help us at all as he’d just be chasing shadows against their deeper pair. I’d prefer to have a forward dropping deeper to hound those two at times than have 3 midfielders for the sake of it.

10

JOS plays for Sunderland centre half and has done for quite a while. Next to a fit Dunne, they would be our strongest pairing. St Ledger does bring pace alright but is an average player that gets routinely physically dominated. The suggestion that O’Dea be involved in any way shows where your head is at.
Ward isn’t good to be a defender at any decent level. Wilson will have to be thrown in there. Kelly at right back sounds alright.

To suggest that playing with more than one striker is not negative just shows how much of a forelock tugger you have become to your betters from the continent. We could play with four strikers and it will still be negative as the only way we supply them with possession is hoofing it from the back.
To suggest Keane should start against zee Germans is to suggest we play with 10 players. I dont rate McCarthy in the slightest but would be willing to give anyone a chance over Whelan.

11

To be fair to KiB, O’Shea and Dunne together has been the best partnership I’ve seen in the last while. Nothing too much wrong with Sledge, of course, but O’Shea and Dunne were superb the times they played together. Can Sledge play full-back? I think he can.

Wouldn’t be mad on seeing Kelly and Coleman on the right and having Lahm running at them all night. If Trap does go 5 in midfield, I actually think Meyler would be a decent bet to sit in behind the inevitable pairing of Whelan and Andrews. He’s a good lad for making a tackle and has an excellent engine and workrate, unlike that lazy cunt Whelan.

12

[quote=“KIB man, post: 711518”]
JOS plays for Sunderland centre half and has done for quite a while. Next to a fit Dunne, they would be our strongest pairing. St Ledger does bring pace alright but is an average player that gets routinely physically dominated. The suggestion that O’Dea be involved in any way shows where your head is at.[/quote]

I didn’t say O’Dea should play. I said St Ledger and Dunne should play. It’s very hard to have a debate with you if you make things up.

[quote=“KIB man, post: 711518”]
Ward isn’t good to be a defender at any decent level. Wilson will have to be thrown in there. Kelly at right back sounds alright.[/quote]
Ward isn’t good enough to be a defender so you’d play him in central midfield. That’s honestly the weirdest suggestion I’ve ever seen for an Irish soccer selection.

[quote=“KIB man, post: 711518”]
To suggest that playing with more than one striker is not negative just shows how much of a forelock tugger you have become to your betters from the continent. We could play with four strikers and it will still be negative as the only way we supply them with possession is hoofing it from the back.[/quote]
What on earth is that first sentence supposed to mean?

You’re misunderstanding (either deliberately or through ignorance) the point I’m making. It’s not purely negative to play long ball football. It’s not pretty and its effectiveness is questionable but we score a reasonable amount of goals because Trap clearly emphasises territory and avoiding errors in our half over possession.

We won’t keep the ball for long periods against Germany. If we had Guardiola managing us and played with 6 Irish central midfielders we’d still get passed off the park. That’s because we don’t have players who are capable of keeping the ball.

I have no issue with playing 3 central midfielders and wouldn’t mind seeing it, even against Germany, but there’s this strange idea that has gripped Irish football that we need to play a 5 man midfield to be more creative and more successful. There’s nothing necessarily creative or successful about it. If we have the players available to suit it (and assuming Gibson isn’t around then that’s a big blow to that) then it’s worth considering. But it’s not a magic formula to change anything. And looking at our strengths, we have better strikers than we have central midfielders. So playing 1 out of Doyle, Cox, Long, Keane and Walters while playing all three of Andrews, Whelan and McCarthy is in my opinion just picking players arbitrarily to suit a system that is no better or worse than any other system, it’s just not the one we’re currently using so it’s ever so popular.

[quote=“KIB man, post: 711518”]
To suggest Keane should start against zee Germans is to suggest we play with 10 players. I dont rate McCarthy in the slightest but would be willing to give anyone a chance over Whelan.[/quote]
You’ve flip-flopped on Keane constantly for a long time so forgive me if I just ignore the latest mood swing.

13

I actually assumed I’d misread that or was having an acid flashback. Ward in midfield. Left wing perhaps. Up front even. Centre midfield…christ above no.

14

[quote=“Thrawneen, post: 711519”]
Wouldn’t be mad on seeing Kelly and Coleman on the right and having Lahm running at them all night. If Trap does go 5 in midfield, I actually think Meyler would be a decent bet to sit in behind the inevitable pairing of Whelan and Andrews. He’s a good lad for making a tackle and has an excellent engine and workrate, unlike that lazy cunt Whelan.[/quote]

I’ve liked the look of Meyler when I’ve seen him but fear he won’t get much gametime at Sunderland between now and the German game.

I think he might be an option as a narrow winger for us too and would give us good balance as a foil for McGeady or McClean. He could be a Keith Fahey type for this campaign - he’s another who would have been a candidate for a central midfield berth.

15

predictable enough response

you did say (JOS) doesnt deserve his place there (at centre half) ahead of O’Dea.

The Ward suggestion for midfield is just that. Id consider him an option in midfield before playing him again at left back.

If the Irish manager was a clueless buffoon like Staunton, I dont think you or others would be cutting him the same slack you are giving Trap. Trap’s ancient record on the continent, we did entice him from the might of Red Bull Salzburg didnt we, has blinded a lot of people including your good self to the shambles the side has become.

The formation in itself isnt the problem, although playing a passenger like Keane at this stage of his career doesnt help… Not even at Stoke is every ball passed back to the full back to hoof long and high. It isnt difficult for us to try and put together 8 - 10 passes. For limited players, the best way to do this is for players to play closer to each other not the retarded set up Trap has the side with our wingers who cant beat full backs stuck out wide with our full backs 10 yards behind them. It is so easy to defend against, drop the opposition wideman to double up on McGeady so he is forced to pass it back to Ward who will try and hoof it in the general direction of a player in green 50 yards away.

Keane is in no condition to be playing 90 mins at international level. An option to bring on certainly but no more than that particularly against a side where we wont see the ball for long periods. We have more mobile options up front who need to start ahead of him. Long in particular gives us much needed pace up there.

16

[quote=“KIB man, post: 711523”]

predictable enough response

you did say (JOS) doesnt deserve his place there (at centre half) ahead of O’Dea.

The Ward suggestion for midfield is just that. Id consider him an option in midfield before playing him again at left back.

If the Irish manager was a clueless buffoon like Staunton, I dont think you or others would be cutting him the same slack you are giving Trap. Trap’s ancient record on the continent, we did entice him from the might of Red Bull Salzburg didnt we, has blinded a lot of people including your good self to the shambles the side has become.

The formation in itself isnt the problem, although playing a passenger like Keane at this stage of his career doesnt help… Not even at Stoke is every ball passed back to the full back to hoof long and high. It isnt difficult for us to try and put together 8 - 10 passes. For limited players, the best way to do this is for players to play closer to each other not the retarded set up Trap has the side with our wingers who cant beat full backs stuck out wide with our full backs 10 yards behind them. It is so easy to defend against, drop the opposition wideman to double up on McGeady so he is forced to pass it back to Ward who will try and hoof it in the general direction of a player in green 50 yards away.

Keane is in no condition to be playing 90 mins at international level. An option to bring on certainly but no more than that particularly against a side where we wont see the ball for long periods. We have more mobile options up front who need to start ahead of him. Long in particular gives us much needed pace up there.[/quote]

Don’t be silly now, I said I’d start St Ledger and Dunne. I wouldn’t play O’Shea or O’Dea no matter how much you wish I’d say otherwise.

The Ward thing is just ludicrous. I’ll let you edit your post and I’ll edit mine if you want, there’s no way you seriously meant that.

I do like the next point in particular. Of course I wouldn’t cut a clueless buffoon as much slack. Why the fuck would I?

McGeady beat his full back about 6 times in the second half alone on Friday by the way.

17

the clueless buffoon point was poorly articulated alright. reading it now, it doesnt make any sense at all :frowning:

i think what I was trying to say was if Staunton, Kerr or McCarthy came up with the shite Trap has been coming out with for the last 12 months, they would be crucified. Yet there is a reluctance from some including yourself to be seen to be criticising someone of Trap’s standing in the game.

Re Ward, I reckon he would do a better job than Whelan in there. Then again Id pick Keith Andrews at centre half before Id have McShane anywhere near the squad and said as much before the Euros. You probably think that is mental too.

18

It doesn’t matter who we start in that match we will be slaughtered. Trap hasn’t got a clue and is dragging us back light years.:frowning:

No matter how well lads are doing for their club trap won’t play them. The sooner he goes the better.

19

[quote=“tazdedub, post: 711526”]It doesn’t matter who we start in that match we will be slaughtered. Trap hasn’t got a clue and is dragging us back light years.

No matter how well lads are doing for their club trap won’t play them. The sooner he goes the better.[/quote]
We’ll win 2-1 :slight_smile:

20

@[member=‘Rocko’], Do you know when and where the return leg of this is on?