Anything to Marco?
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Come on mate. Didn’t know names of the Irish players previous time he was involved. A bluffer.
Status and/or a messianic personality can get you success as a manager in the short term. The Brits have an obsession with the idea of the “raaaaarrrrrr” alpha male midfield general becoming a great manager. There are five classic ones in the modern era - Graeme Souness, Bryan Robson, Roy Keane, Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard.
None of these five were great managers, or anywhere near it - they all turned out to be bad managers - but all had varying levels of short term success based on who they were before they became hopelessly exposed and became beaten dockets.
In a way, they’re actually a demonstration of how status matters.
Graeme Souness: Intellectually the smartest of the five. Came to Rangers when Rangers were at a very low ebb, and completely energised the support and players. He was able to sign English players because of his status, because the Scottish League offered European football, and because Rangers had money. Rangers’ rivals didn’t have the money they did. Rangers surged ahead and became the dominant team in Scotland under him.
Then he went to Liverpool, got rid of a load of players, signed inferior replacements, his personality was overbearing, he couldn’t cut it tactically, and he sank. He was more or less a beaten docket as a manager after this bar a moderately successful spell at Blackburn.
Bryan Robson: Energised the Middlesbrough players and supporters because he was Manchester United and England’s captain for a decade and Mr. Raaaaar. Middlesbrough had money and were building a new stadium. Won the second division in his first season as a player manager. Went moderately in his first season in the Premier League. In his second season in the Premier League it became apparent that despite spending a lot of money, he didn’t know what he was doing tactically and his personality was Father Stone like. Got relegated. Trundled along with Middlesbrough for a few more years but was only going to be a journeyman manager after this.
Roy Keane: Completely energised the Sunderland players and support after five straight defeats to start the 2006/07 season. His entry was box office. Swept everything before him in his first season on the back of his messianic personality. Had a mediocre first season in the Premier League and the longer things went on the less he could rely on his messianic personality and the more that more personality became a hindrance. It became steadily apparent that he had nothing in his managerial locker other than “raaaaaaarrrrrrrr”. Stopped returning the chairman’s calls. Resigned without telling anybody. Was a beaten docket as a manager after this.
Steven Gerrard: Energised the Rangers support and players. What a coup for Rangers to get such a big name. From the start, despite his negative body language and interviews, Rangers improved, because they had Steven Gerrard and they were in a shite league. Confidence surged despite the negging. Celtic imploded, Rangers knew this was their chance and they took it. Then Gerrard left. After a few months of doing passably at Aston Villa, Gerrard’s negative personality and lack of tactical knowledge showed very quickly and they sank like a stone. It was no surprise when he was sacked and that was him done as a manager at any serious level.
Frank Lampard: Frank could speak well and voted Tory, so therefore the English football intelligentsia decided to delude themselves that he was going to be a top, top manager. Had a passable time at Derby based on being Frank Lampard. Then got the Chelsea job based on being Frank Lampard. Had a passable first season as Chelsea manager because he was Frank Lampard and he energised the players and supporters. Then he had no supporters in the stadium, he only had himself, and Frank didn’t understand football tactics, so Chelsea sank like a stone, sacked him, and then won the Champions League with a better coach. Frank went to Everton where he energised the players and support because he wasn’t Steven Gerrard, somehow kept them up based entirely on the ideology of ”raaaaaaaarrrrrrr”, then sank like a stone the next season. Now treated as a joke.
To add to these: Kevin Keegan, Martin O’Neill, Neil Lennon. All three had messianic personality types and achieved real success. Then, to varying levels, things went tits up for them.
Keegan was done as Newcastle manager once Newcastle collapsed on that run in in 95/96 and he had the meltdown on telly. He couldn’t cut it as England manager. He repeated his Newcastle trick at Manchester City for one season but then petered out Bryan Robson style as his personality con trick became less and less convincing.
O’Neill had the messianic air of greatness about him as a manager, but he was inherently conservative in his tactics and his signing policy. That became painfully apparent once Henrik Larsson departed Celtic. The messianic air went. He was never the same afterwards. Had a moderately successful spell at Aston Villa, saved Sunderland from relegation before getting sacked, did OK with Ireland before his inherent conservatism led to it all going wrong.
Lennon was the messiah when he first took over Celtic. He was Mr. Celtic. In his first season, he mixed Midas (the 3-0 win over Rangers) with Jonah (the calamitous loss to Inverness Caledonian Thistle which cost Celtic the league). Rangers then imploded, and Lennon’s personality enabled Celtic to have a good European campaign, including beating Barcelona. Soon the personality act wore off, and he was off, and he couldn’t be the messiah anywhere else, so he was done for as a manager, and when he came back to Celtic he was no longer the messiah, he was a washed up has been.
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Doesn’t it go tits up for nearly all football managers at some stage. Currently, I can think of Guardiola, or Ferguson where it’s been successful. Did Ancelotti not fuck up at some stage?
Brendan Rodgers and David Moyes could be considered beaten dockets, as well as Michael O’Neill…
The spell with Anthony Barry involved showed that the ceiling of the present squad us higher than its been for the majority of Spock’s reign so there is ample scope to improve.
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Sometimes a good or even great manager is a bad fit personality wise for a club. Ancelotti at Bayern is a great example. Guardiola had drilled those players to within an inch of their lives, they were used to dealing with his obsessive personality and obsessive coaching. Ancelotti was the opposite of Guardiola’s personality and the players steadily began to believe they were being under coached.
Ancelotti, like Zidane and Del Bosque, was a perfect fit for Real Madrid, because of the unique nature of what Real Madrid always is, which is a collection of the world’s most gifted players, with massive egos in the dressing room. All three had the authority, but it was calm, dude like authority. Del Bosque was the quiet Mr. Madrid. Zidane was Zidane. All he had to do was clap his hands. All Ancelotti had to do was to get the players to chill out, which he could do very well.
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very good point
Bar a real left field appointment, Ireland are probably fishing in the following pool for a new manager.
Sam Allardyce
Plus points: The players will know who he is and respect him. Has a proven record of knocking a tune out of moderate players. His game plan is basic, based on being hard to beat, and would probably suit international level. Has unfinished business at international level.
Negative points: May be a beaten docket emotionally and age wise.
Lee Carsley
Plus points: Has status as a solid servant of the Ireland team as a player. Probably has a calm authority, that’s the way he always came across. Has a good record with England underage.
Negative points: An unknown quantity as a senior manager.
Neil Lennon
Plus points: Apart from Celtic, Ireland would be the only other team that would excite him on an emotional level. Would fire up the players, at least initially. Has experience at the top level of European football, has beaten Barcelona.
Negative points: His recent managerial record is not good.
Damien Duff
Plus points: He’s Damien Duff. None of the players will ask “who the fuck is this guy?”
Negative points: Has already worked with these Irish players under Stephen Kenny. Unknown quantity as manager at a high level.
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Pity Ferguson was injured. We would have won if he was fit in my opinion.
Spock suggested he wasn’t really injured
Where are the quotes on that?
Last week.
There was no mention of Irish staff deciding he was injured.
He stated it was the players decision.
Seems pretty standard stuff and nothing to be getting concerned about:
Instead, the manager revealed that Ferguson – who was on the bench for the opening two games of Brighton’s season – has been dealing with an ongoing problem.
He reported for Irish duty on Sunday and was on the sidelines at training on Monday, participating in group discussions. But Kenny said the player was assessed by medics and indicated that he remained in too much pain.
“I don’t think it was well reported, that it was an injury in the game, a challenge, that’s not the case,” said Kenny. “It’s one he has been playing on, a patellar tendon. He felt after the other night that he was too sore, he couldn’t play.
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Who were the 5 players Spock referred to when saying “we were missing five of our best players tonight”
Ferguson and who else?
Coleman maybe? But even then that’s a stretch
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Mikey Johnston? Obafemi?
I don’t think Mikey Johnson had started a competitive game for us, has he?
He scored against gibraltar, i he played in every game up to this window in this campaign
Hasnt started for Celtic in years
I think youre dead wrong on O Neill. He was a great manager and doesn’t fit your theory. Did a smashing job at both wycombe and leicester, winning trophies with clubs that never win trophies. Got villa to a final. Kept them 6/7 in league for years.
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