Ireland's health service

[artfoley]

@mikehunt

Now I could be way off on this but I think I read somewhere that the only people that can be fired from the HSE are doctors and nurses. So, as an administrator you can be as incompetent as you like and there will be no repercussions.(Obviously can be fired for committing crimes).

nope, any public servant can be fired for breaches of the disclipinary code or failing to perform to a satisfactory level.

[farmerinthecity]

@artfoley

failing to perform to a satisfactory level.

They just don’t have any proper way of determining this though.

[artfoley]

@farmerinthecity

They just don’t have any proper way of determining this though.

they do, PMDS and PIP

[Horsebox]

@artfoley

@farmerinthecity

They just don’t have any proper way of determining this though.

they do, PMDS and PIP

[artfoley]

@Horsebox

19.pdf

24.pdf

[Horsebox]

@artfoley

@Horsebox

https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2016/19.pdf
https://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2016/24.pdf

They’re lovely policy documents, art. Are there any figures available for the number of civil servants that have actually been fired for under-performance though? I can’t find any figures for 2014-2017 but the number of civil servants fired between 2007-2014 is 55 (fifty-five). It is undisclosed how many of those were for under-performance unfortunately but at an average of just under 8 per year in that time-frame then one would have to believe that they are performing at an unreal level. Almost unbelievable actually.

[artfoley]

@Horsebox

They’re lovely policy documents, art. Are there any figures available for the number of civil servants that have actually been fired for under-performance though? I can’t find any figures for 2014-2017 but the number of civil servants fired between 2007-2014 is 55 (fifty-five). It is undisclosed how many of those were for under-performance unfortunately but at an average of just under 8 per year in that time-frame then one would have to believe that they are performing at an unreal level. Almost unbelievable actually.

iirc, there’s been 36 fired since 2015. the new policies are bedding and I’d expect those figures to rise sharply in the next few years.

[Horsebox]

@artfoley

@Horsebox

They’re lovely policy documents, art. Are there any figures available for the number of civil servants that have actually been fired for under-performance though? I can’t find any figures for 2014-2017 but the number of civil servants fired between 2007-2014 is 55 (fifty-five). It is undisclosed how many of those were for under-performance unfortunately but at an average of just under 8 per year in that time-frame then one would have to believe that they are performing at an unreal level. Almost unbelievable actually.

iirc, there’s been 36 fired since 2015. the new policies are bedding and I’d expect those figures to rise sharply in the next few years.

That’s progress I guess.

[mikehunt]

O’Brien resigns but should he not have been sacked? He gets to keep his pension. Same with Noirin O’Sullivan and Callinan before her. When there are no consequences for incompetence, fraud or corruption then it will continue to happen. Those that are being sacked have to be taking the absolute piss and are usually grunt level anyway.

[balbec]

What’s the involuntary attrition rate?

[glasagusban]

A lot of people that do not pass probation would resign having had a “perhaps this is not the right career for you” chat with a member of management, rather than it being forced through the formal process.

[farmerinthecity]

Bedding in of new procedures?

PMDS has been around for at least 10 years.

Where is 36 coming from?

[balbec]

What’s probation, three months? We’re in sweep sweep territory here.

[glasagusban]

A year.

[Horsebox]

@glasagusban

A lot of people that do not pass probation would resign having had a “perhaps this is not the right career for you” chat with a member of management, rather than it being forced through the formal process.

Any rough figures for that? Even guestimates?

[Cicero_Dandi]

He’s very defensive.

[artfoley]

@farmerinthecity

Bedding in of new procedures?

PMDS has been around for at least 10 years.

Where is 36 coming from?

yes, the new procedures are in a post to horsebox above. with pmds now, you only have 2 findings: satisfactory or unsatisfactory so its easier to get into the (new) disclipinary process and (new) managing underperformance.

the 36 is coming from my memory, I’d seen it in a document

[glasagusban]

No I don’t. Luckily I passed my probation in February so I can put the feet up now.

[Horsebox]

Congrats, bro.

That number would be small enough I’d say though.

[artfoley]

@glasagusban

No I don’t. Luckily I passed my probation in February so I can put the feet up now.

no feet up pal til a year after you’ve secured the PO position!