There was no players heave in either example, to the best of my knowledge, so they arenât relevant, and yes, Iâm aware of Eoin Kelly and Brendan Cummins not being happy under Babs in 2007. Both men stepped aside of their own volition.
Taking off Aidan Harte after 20 minutes id pretty pro-active, I think youâll agree. So is taking off your captain.
Your lack of dispute about the 2010 Tipperary under-21 team being a once in a generation team is noted.
Id take that
In what way was it positive?
Players wanted both out. County boards in Kilkenny and Tipperary that typically pull with their players, senior players were listened to and both were discarded without any great fuss or publicity.
Harte harshly taken off 20 minutes in. Smith taken off about 15 minutes too late. Got himself a needless yellow card, was running around like a headless chicken and at 32 didnât have the legs for it. Game was gone from Galway by the time Smith was called ashore. Fresh legs were needed there a good 10/15 minutes earlier. [quote=âSidney, post:2162, topic:17207â]
Your lack of dispute about the 2010 Tipperary under-21 team being a once in a generation team is noted.
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As regards 2010 Tipperary under-21 team, certainly a once in a generation team for success starved Tipperary. Its the only All Ireland winning team Tipperary have produced in the U21 grade in a generation since their 1995 win. From a Galway perspective, the team Cunningham sent out the night of that final in Thurles was an organisational shambles.
Correct.
There was no heave by the players, no dispute, no public controversy pitting players against management, and thus your point about public perception falls down totally.
When a team loses, substitutions are always judged to be wrong by those with an agenda against the management. Câest la vie. Itâs always been that way and will be ever thus.
Itâs as gifted a team as has been seen at that grade, and well you know it.
@Geoffrey appears to have the cut of someone who has had some involvement in the game versus @sidâs journalistic standpoint.
Many many managers have been removed as a result of player misgivings but shrewd county boards have handled it quietly. Galway county board could never be accused of that.
It was a good team alright.
You could argue any of the Winning 2012,13 or 14 Clare teams were equally gifted or better.
Obviously, pal, but weâre not discussing those occurrences, weâre discussing actual heaves by players against the management, which is why the examples of Fennelly and Babs are totally irrelevant.
The players in Kilkenny in 1998 and Tipperary in 2007 wanted their managers out. The county board listened. If they hadnât, whoâs to say the players wouldnât have resorted to the nuclear option. Public perception doesnât come into it. If the players in Galway donât believe Cunningham is up to the job (a view they have seemingly expressed a number of times) and the county board will do nothing, they should put up with because the Fidelma Healy Eames of this world will be put out if they bring things to a head?[quote=âSidney, post:2167, topic:17207â]
Itâs as gifted a team as has been seen at that grade, and well you know it.
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Tipperary had a good few fellows who won senior the week before and who have largely underachieved at senior level since. Worth noting also in 2010 that Tipperary needed extra time to beat Cork by 2 points and were pushed all the way by Clare in the Munster final coming from behind to win by 5. Clare and Cork pushed this âgiftedâ Tipperary team all the way. Anthony Cunninghamâs Galway collapsed to the tune of 25 points.
The point is they didnât, which you now admit, and thus my point about public perception is vindicated.
Babs didnât pack it in, he was shown the door by the Co Board on the advice of the players. Like it or not but they had no choice, at least they kept it quiet and Babs walked.
You donât necessarily have to be that involved or close to the scene to have heard the rumblings about Cunningham that have been going on for a while.
I was sitting beside a most knowledgeable and interesting Offaly man at this years All Ireland Hurling Final - a man not previously of my acquaintance. He was a county board delegate for his club and we got talking between the minor and senior game about Offaly hurling and the appointment of their new manager earlier that week. He was happy with the Offaly appointment and felt their new manager (albeit low profile) was a very knowledgeable and astute hurling man and a good fit for the rebuilding job needed in Offaly at the moment. He was saying that early in the process to appoint a new manager, some more high profile candidates had been sounded out but none wanted to commit and almost all indicated that they wanted to keep options open in case of a vacancy in Galway at the end of the year, which most felt would materialise.
Proactive doesnât mean positive
But again, youâre vindicating my point. There was no public heave by the players against Babs, and thus the situations are not comparable.
The Galway heave has occurred in public view and turned into a full blown media and public controversy, as did the recent Mayo one.
No such happenings occurred in Tipperary or Kilkenny. Any goings on remained effectively in-house and there was no public stand-off. Thus the situations are not comparable.
Situations which are comparable include the Mayo heave against Brian McDonald in 1992, the Cavan heave against Liam Austin in 1998, the Cork strikes, the Limerick heave against Justin McCarthy as well as the sacking of Eamonn Coleman in Derry and the attempted sacking of Billy Morgan in Cork that I referenced. These were all full blown crises which occurred in public view and in which public sentiment played a role in the eventual outcome.
Clearly the Co Boards fault.
Have any TFK posters been involved in a heave against an intercounty manager?
I was removed as manager of a senior hurling team, as a result of a players heave against me.
Who delivered the news?
No, but I have been involved as a club official at committee level approached by players who wanted a manager removed who they felt wasnât up to the job.