Sid as usual just ignores when he makes a pretty straight forward blunder.
I wouldnât be counting the defeat after extra time as anything other than a defeat unless I had the draw backed in 70mins
You seem to be using Kerry as a yard stick and big up Armagh forwards like Marsden, McConville. Clarke regularly on various threads. If they are as hot as you say they are how come they only got past Kerry once in four?
Iâd say he has 2-3 wins, but thatâs a guess.
Good performances against Kerry in Munster are not to be just dismissed as irrelevant. Granted the knock out games carry greater weight
- sure James McCarthy picked up an all star this year for games in his province
This is a weird argument. Debating the merits of players as to how they did against Kerry.
Paddy Kelly is a nice forward and was excellent in 2009 and 2010. He hasnât done anything since. Oisin McConville was consistently very good and sometimes brilliant over a career of about 10 to 15 years for club and county. No comparison for me.
[QUOTE=âfarmerinthecity, post: 1060893, member: 24â]This is a weird argument. Debating the merits of players as to how they did against Kerry.
Paddy Kelly is a nice forward and was excellent in 2009 and 2010. He hasnât done anything since. Oisin McConville was consistently very good and sometimes brilliant over a career of about 10 to 15 years for club and county. No comparison for me.[/QUOTE]
McConville better in my view.
Not too keen on some of the commentary towards Kelly though
you really expect Paddy Kelly to beat Kerry on his own pal???.. For me I wouldnât see much similarities them as they were totally different playersâŚKelly played a lot further from the goal for a start and was a playmaker⌠mcconville usually played a lot further up the field and like you said was the go to man for scores, usually after someone else winning the ball and throwing it out to him⌠he reminded me of Henry Shefflin in that way⌠both masters at just hanging loose for the ball to be passed out to them as opposed to actually going in competing for the 50/50 ballsâŚthe result being most times they were on the ball they were in space and in scoring range which really maximised their obvious brilliant accuracy âŚ
Top 5 Gaelic football forwards since 2000:
- Ciaran Sheehan
- Paddy Kelly
- Colm OâNeill
- Donncha OâConnor
- Colm Cooper
I donât but I think itâs absolutely ludicrous someone could rate Kelly ahead of McConville. As for McConville, people overlook his other qualities with his free taking ability, he was a tremendous all round player and far more than a free taker or score getter. He was one of the hardest working players I ever seen for Armagh, got on some amount of ball in the middle of the field and was by far the most involved player of the Armagh forward line. People view Kellyâs game as a good ball carrier and playmaker, the thing is that while McConville was more regarded as a playmaker he was a better ball carrier and playmaker than Kelly and he was a heavy scorer, tallies that Kelly could only dream of.
Itâs absolutely absurd to say Kelly was better. Heâll probably claim Donnacha OâConnor was a better player than Stevie McDonnell too.
[QUOTE=âkerry1891, post: 1060888, member: 1379â]I wouldnât be counting the defeat after extra time as anything other than a defeat unless I had the draw backed in 70mins
You seem to be using Kerry as a yard stick and big up Armagh forwards like Marsden, McConville. Clarke regularly on various threads. If they are as hot as you say they are how come they only got past Kerry once in four?[/QUOTE]
I am not. Iâm using McConvilleâs ability to consistently perform in big games throughout his career whereas Kelly has been a player who has dipped in and out of an average Cork side for the majority of his career. You seem to be one with a severe chip on your shoulder regarding Ulster teams.
[QUOTE=âIl Bomber Destro, post: 1060900, member: 2533â]I donât but I think itâs absolutely ludicrous someone could rate Kelly ahead of McConville. As for McConville, people overlook his other qualities with his free taking ability, he was a tremendous all round player and far more than a free taker or score getter. He was one of the hardest working players I ever seen for Armagh, got on some amount of ball in the middle of the field and was by far the most involved player of the Armagh forward line. People view Kellyâs game as a good ball carrier and playmaker, the thing is that while McConville was more regarded as a playmaker he was a better ball carrier and playmaker than Kelly and he was a heavy scorer, tallies that Kelly could only dream of.
Itâs absolutely absurd to say Kelly was better. Heâll probably claim Donnacha OâConnor was a better player than Stevie McDonnell too.[/QUOTE]
stevie another good forward alongside Oisin, Ronan and Diarmuid on that team.
Enda has the following to say about that bunch. 8 all Irelands left behind them apparently.
no I donât. Just a bit more balanced about them than you are.
[QUOTE=âIl Bomber Destro, post: 1060900, member: 2533â]I donât but I think itâs absolutely ludicrous someone could rate Kelly ahead of McConville. As for McConville, people overlook his other qualities with his free taking ability, he was a tremendous all round player and far more than a free taker or score getter. He was one of the hardest working players I ever seen for Armagh, got on some amount of ball in the middle of the field and was by far the most involved player of the Armagh forward line. People view Kellyâs game as a good ball carrier and playmaker, the thing is that while McConville was more regarded as a playmaker he was a better ball carrier and playmaker than Kelly and he was a heavy scorer, tallies that Kelly could only dream of.
Itâs absolutely absurd to say Kelly was better. Heâll probably claim Donnacha OâConnor was a better player than Stevie McDonnell too.[/QUOTE]
thereâs no arguing Mcconville has done a lot more in the gameâŚI would have always been of the opinion that Mcconville was more or less given a free role in that Armagh team?..the likes of the mcentees and Mcgrane would have covered while he drifted around more?..that doesn;t mean he never decided to drop back or wasn;t a tireless worker, I just thought part of their game plan was for him to be feeding off ball to full forwad line⌠diagonal ball from half back line to Marsden and Macdonnell with Mcconville coming off the shoulderâŚ
[QUOTE=âIl Bomber Destro, post: 1060900, member: 2533â]I donât but I think itâs absolutely ludicrous someone could rate Kelly ahead of McConville. As for McConville, people overlook his other qualities with his free taking ability, he was a tremendous all round player and far more than a free taker or score getter. He was one of the hardest working players I ever seen for Armagh, got on some amount of ball in the middle of the field and was by far the most involved player of the Armagh forward line. People view Kellyâs game as a good ball carrier and playmaker, the thing is that while McConville was more regarded as a playmaker he was a better ball carrier and playmaker than Kelly and he was a heavy scorer, tallies that Kelly could only dream of.
Itâs absolutely absurd to say Kelly was better. Heâll probably claim Donnacha OâConnor was a better player than Stevie McDonnell too.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs some brilliant revisionism there.
The fact that you are suggesting McConville is/was a better play maker is nuts.
As scumpot alluded to, OM would pick up a lot of scores from other peopleâs play. He did that to a high level, however it is easier to find players like that than players like Kelly who creates so much.
Kelly was absolutely incredible at times. In 2 big games, All Ireland 1/4 v Tyrone and I think from memory semi final v Dublin he hit 100% pass accuracy rate. That is unheard of. Gooches performances at no. 11 were lauded last year yet he gave away ball and allowed the centre back to have a load of ball. It was a big weakness with Kerry despite media blowing it up.
Cork won as many AIâs as Armagh in recent times and were more consistent for longer. Just like Armagh had big players and big plays Cork had the same. The media loved Armagh for their uniqueness and thatâs fair enough, but the dislike of Cork and the general misinformed pub talk about them emanates from the 3 lads in RTE who all have issues with Cork. Itâs clowns like you who canât see the wood from the trees
[QUOTE=âkerry1891, post: 1060904, member: 1379â]stevie another good forward alongside Oisin, Ronan and Diarmuid on that team.
Enda has the following to say about that bunch. 8 all Irelands left behind them apparently.
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=229263[/QUOTE]
Itâs crazy talk. Absolute nonsense.
You get what you deserve.
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1060907, member: 273â]Thatâs some brilliant revisionism there.
The fact that you are suggesting McConville is/was a better play maker is nuts.
As scumpot alluded to, OM would pick up a lot of scores from other peopleâs play. He did that to a high level, however it is easier to find players like that than players like Kelly who creates so much.
Kelly was absolutely incredible at times. In 2 big games, All Ireland 1/4 v Tyrone and I think from memory semi final v Dublin he hit 100% pass accuracy rate. That is unheard of. Gooches performances at no. 11 were lauded last year yet he gave away ball and allowed the centre back to have a load of ball. It was a big weakness with Kerry despite media blowing it up.
Cork won as many AIâs as Armagh in recent times and were more consistent for longer. Just like Armagh had big players and big plays Cork had the same. The media loved Armagh for their uniqueness and thatâs fair enough, but the dislike of Cork and the general misinformed pub talk about them emanates from the 3 lads in RTE who all have issues with Cork. Itâs clowns like you who canât see the wood from the trees[/QUOTE]
people talk about the roasting the Gooch game Ger Brennan in AI semi final first halfâŚbut to me Paddy Kelly gave him a worse one in the league final in 2011âŚkelly absolutely destroyed us that day in second halfâŚ
[QUOTE=âfarmerinthecity, post: 1060893, member: 24â]This is a weird argument. Debating the merits of players as to how they did against Kerry.
Paddy Kelly is a nice forward and was excellent in 2009 and 2010. He hasnât done anything since. Oisin McConville was consistently very good and sometimes brilliant over a career of about 10 to 15 years for club and county. No comparison for me.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs a comparison.
McConville would be regularly found furrowing back for the ball in his half back line. The amount of ground he covered in games was unreal, the McEntees generally held the fort around the middle of the pitch but McConville was everywhere, it wouldnât be uncommon for him to be in his own halfback line and then 30 seconds later heâs up the field finishing a score off. He was also an excellent link man, I donât think anybody would touch the ball more than McConville would for Armagh (under Kernan anyway).
