I agree atmosphere wise, GG is brutal.
But Iâm just thinking in terms of dressing rooms & surface it would feel like a final.
The rain falling this week will have all club pitches in very heavy states.
Final point would be the presentation looks much better seeing a team lift a cup in the Mackey, opposed to on pitch level or infront of dressing rooms. Just my preferences
What about Askeaton 
And it has begun 
Any predictions who will be the referees for the upcoming county finals??
Johnny Murphy -Senior
John O Halloran - Prem Inter
Eamon Stapleton - Inter
Mikey Browne - Junior
Mike Mann - Senior
Seanie Hartnett - Prem Inter
Mikey Browne - Inter
John McGrath - Junior
Davy Dillane will surely get the football final if he donât get a run out for the hurling! Jim Long would have been a shoe in for the Junior hurling only for F/K being involved!
Flahertyâs time is nowâŚ
He wouldnât referee a cock fight!
Be a big challenge for MB⌠other 3 capable.
Kilcooâs appeal against the appointment of a referee for a county final went all the way to the DRA and has shaken the Association and asked more questions than the membership felt comfortable with. John Fogarty spoke to solicitor Conor Sally who represented Kilcoo, about it and the area of GAA appeals
Tyrone delegate Conor Sally speaking during day two of the GAA Annual Congress 2023 at Croke Park in Dublin. Photo by Piaras Ă MĂdheach/Sportsfile
THU, 19 OCT, 2023 - 06:45
JOHN FOGARTY
By his estimation, last Saturday was Conor Sallyâs seventh Disputes Resolution Authority (DRA) hearing meeting this year.
The Omagh solicitor doesnât believe the GAA rules should entitle any unit to appeal against the appointment of a referee. Paul Faloon he rates as an excellent match official, even once filling in for him as an umpire.
Yet when he was contacted by Kilcoo, it was his professional responsibility to inform them they were permitted as per the GAA Official Guide to appeal Downâs decision to appoint Faloon to last Sundayâs county senior football final.
Sally also knew it would be a high bar to prove Faloon was biased against the club and he told Kilcoo as much. Nevertheless, when he was approached by them he understood a case could be made for interim relief seeing as the GAAâs Official Guide does not prevent a unit from contesting the appointment of a referee.
That wasnât always the case. Up to early 2012, the rulebook did not facilitate such an appeal and other county committee decisions such as the arrangement for the date and venue of a game providing required notice is given.
However, the rule changed following Congress that year to state that no appeal could be made âoutside the countyâ.
Therefore, one could be launched inside it. For that very reason, Sally was able to successfully make a case for Tinryland that the date for the Carlow Division 1 football final against Ăire Ăg as set by the countyâs competitions control committee was not in keeping with the leagueâs regulations.
A member of Ulsterâs competitions control committee as well as being chairman of his club Omagh St Endaâs, part of the Tyrone executive and one of their Annual Congress delegates, Sally has sat and often sits on both sides of the table. He is immersed in the association but his perspective is rounded by his day job.
âThe very fact the rulebook allows a rule to appeal against the referee must mean in some circumstances itâs successful. You canât have a rule to allow an appeal thatâs going to fail 100% of the time.
âYouâll often hear âheâs using a technicalityâ or âheâs using a loopholeâ. Well, there are no loopholes â there are just rules. All the people are using rules. The DRA panel have lawyers and an administrator or experienced GAA member and they judge the case as it stands before them.
âThe hearing is about whether or not the infraction occurred or didnât occur. The appeal donât look at that, they look for a breach of rule or an injustice. If you donât have that argument, itâs thrown out.â Sally fully expects the GAA, be it the Down County Board or the rules advisory committee, to shore up the rule that allowed Kilcoo bring their case as far as the DRA.
âYou shouldnât be allowed to appeal against a referee or a fixture or a venue. Itâs hard enough for people to make fixtures and appointments and itâs hard enough work especially at county level where a lot of it is done by volunteers.
âIt means at provincial and national level where there are a lot of full-time employees dealing with these matters you canât appeal these things whereas perversely youâre entitled to at club level. I have no doubt somebody come Congress will have a motion to rectify this.
âThere is enough common sense within governing bodies of the GAA that issues with referees can be discussed. Weâre all GAA people and we can overcome a lot of things even though we donât get on with each other. I donât think we need a rule to allow for it because itâs a very hard judgement call for anybody to make.â
Referee Paul Faloon during the Ulster GAA Football Senior Championship quarter-final match between Cavan and Armagh at Kingspan Breffni in Cavan. Photo by Stephen McCarthy/Sportsfile
No sooner had Saturdayâs hearing finished when Sally was being contacted again about a possible DRA case. âTis the season for it, he says.
âAt this time of year when you have county semi-finals and finals, somebody gets sent off and the club want every nth analysed. The same way they might order in an extra physio or masseuse to keep their players, theyâll do all they can to have them.
âQuite often, we will tell clubs and managers to take it on the chin, thereâs nothing in it for them. What I find is when people get 48 or 96-week bans they have nothing to lose so theyâre always going to request a hearing and appeal.
âI think it was brilliant the GAA moved away from the four-week ban. I remember (in 2008) Darragh Ă SĂŠ walking off the field thinking he was going to miss the All-Ireland final because of the ban only for Cork to force a semi-final replay.â
Through his club and county, Sally put forward a motion that a player who hits another on the field of play and inflicts harm should receive a minimum ban of three months. However, the rules advisory committee did not sanction it be put on the ClĂĄr of Congress. âWe had a player who had his jaw broke in a minor game and the guy who did it got a one-match ban. Thereâs not enough of a deterrent.â
He disputes the point often made that not enough players and management figures take their medicine.
âA lot of the time the media drive a negative narrative about a case and itâs understandable because most matches on our the weekends, the reports are published in the newspapers on Monday and during the summer Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday the column inches have to be filled. So what better than âthereâs an appeal in Croke Park tonightâ. It catches the imagination of people.
âAn awful lot of people believe if you do the crime, you do the time but thatâs a very lazy attitude because sometimes some of these players have done nothing wrong.
âWe have to remember that when we make rules in the GAA they apply to Con OâCallaghan and to the reserve footballer in Division 3 in the county. The inter-county player has the advantage of his incident being on eight different camera angles. The reserve player that was sent off, the referee mightnât have seen it but his marker is lying on the ground with blood running out of him.
âI have encountered cases that have gone to the criminal court with incidents that happened on the field and in one instance a referee who gave his statement to the police said, âI didnât see the incident, I was 90 metres from it. However, when I went down the field, the No 3 was lying on the ground with blood coming out of his nose so I sent off the No 14.â
âThat player received a suspension but that evidence for a police statement was absolutely useless because the referee hadnât seen the incident. He had done what he thought was right.
âThe perception is that the inter-county player has an easier run but they have the advantages of camera angles and by the time theyâre out of the stadium everyone knows if they did or didnât do it.â
A prime example of the benefits of inter-county came in 2021 when Sally advised the Limerick hurlers and forward Peter Casey in challenging his red card against Waterford in the All-Ireland SHC semi-final. A recording of referee John Keenanâs in-game audio was sought and provided in which he was found to take the advice of his umpire over his linesman in dismissing Casey, the suspension was overturned and Casey played the final.
After a failed attempt by Tipperary in the wake of Jason Fordeâs ban in 2017 to define the âcontributing to a meleeâ rule, Sally would like to clear it up once and for all.
âRight now, it could mean going in to separate two people because youâre still contributing to it.â
He also takes issue with the âat the discretion of the committee-in-chargeâ line dotted around the rulebook. âIf you look at the statute, youâll always have a maximum sentence but we have this discretion line. Thatâs unlimited and could be anything.â
Sally says the GAA owe a debt to DRA secretary, former Offaly hurler Rory Hanniffy, who he expects by yearâs end will have organised 50 hearings in 2023. That nobody has sought to go beyond it to the High Court is an indication of the respect in which both it and the GAA disciplinary system is now held.
âThese are all worked out within the organisation. The system works, the systemâs good. It can always be made better but by and large the process is phenomenal when you think you have a hearing, an appeal and the DRA to right what you think is wrong. That avenueâs open to the inter-county player as it is the reserve player.â
Appealing against referees has happened plenty of times in Limerick to my knowledge. Generally not after an appointment has been made though.
Clubs have submitted in writing to the County Board that they donât want certain referees doing their games.
I would know of plenty clubs that have submitted that âIf playing âxâ they donât want âyâ to referee it.â
Ya, I assume that goes on all over the country, itâs the fact Kilcoo have done it after the appointment was announced is the issue.
Aye, its a regular enough thing, but must be refused every time as it will lead to farcical situations. I dont see what a club gets out of lodging such an appeal anyway other than really driving the referee against them even more.
Castletown in Laois have a real set against a particular hurling referee. They turned up to play a Junior Football game this year, and lo and behold the referee in question was there whistle in hand, he had started refereeing football games too. Castletown most likely saw this as an opportunity to take a stand in a code they didnt give a fuck about and refused to field. Referee threw up the ball, Spink scored, match awarded to Spink, fuck all achieved other than 2 points lost and a fine. Perhaps the CB and referee appointment may not assign said referee going forward, who knows. Might be interesting to monitor I suppose.
Particularly when you have some referees actively involved with coaching clubs and being on the sideline for their matches!
Thats a particular interesting case. A Laois Football County Final referee once managed one of the participating teams previously. As it turned it wasnât an issue, but could see how it could be if the game came down to a tight finish and a marginal call.
Referees are only human, thereâs a lot to be said for not pissing them off. The cunts.
One year you had a particular ref doing games, while he was managing a team in the same group and all his umpires were playing on that team!
Y = Johnny Murphy