5/1, thats cracking odds, I might get on that. I think once they get to SA, the partnership of the two boys will be hard to ignore.
IT Naziâs dont allow that in here, will have a week gander when I get back to the ranch. Cheers mac.
To start 1st test: Number 15
Lions Tour Specials
Others on request,
All in run or not.
Lee Byrne. 1 - 3
Robert Kearney 7 - 2
Delon Armitage 6 - 1
Chris Paterson 25 - 1
Ben Foden 33 - 1
Geordan Murphy 50 - 1
top
To start 1st test: Wing (11 & 14)
Lions Tour Specials
Others on request,
All in run or not.
Shane Williams 1 - 2
Thom Evans 5 - 1
Josh Lewsey 20 - 1
Tommy Bowe evens
Leigh Halfpenny 8 - 1
James Simpson-Daniel 25 - 1
Luke Fitzgerald 2 - 1
Mark Jones 10 - 1
Matt Banahan 33 - 1
Paul Sackey 11 - 4
Robert Kearney 12 - 1
Sean Lamont 40 - 1
Mark Cueto 4 - 1
David Strettle 16 - 1
Rory Lamont 50 - 1
top
To start 1st test: Number 9
Lions Tour Specials
Others on request,
All in run or not.
Mike Phillips 11 - 10
Mike Blair 7 - 4
Harry Ellis 10 - 1
Danny Care 10 - 1
Tomas OâLeary 12 - 1
Dwayne Peel 16 - 1
Peter Stringer 20 - 1
Gareth Cooper 50 - 1
top
To Start 1st test: 12 or 13
All in run or not.
Brian OâDriscoll 1 - 12
Riki Flutey evens
Jamie Roberts 2 - 1
Tom Shanklin 5 - 2
Gavin Henson 3 - 1
Gordon DâArcy 4 - 1
Mike Tindall 8 - 1
Max Evans 8 - 1
Cheers for that, some ineteresting flutters to be had there.
Q. How good are the Irish line out without hayes ?
You would be putting it up against the best lineout in the world without its most underated/important part.
If you go for shaw, he is to heavy to lift, you will need at least one more lineout option in the back row. Is Ferris a real option there, wallace is not, Heslip does his bit there, is it enough ?
This picking a team thing is getting tough!
Also what effect does playing at altitude have on the game plan ?
I read some articule a few weeks back about a s14 match that the visiting team refused to play any sort of rugby until the last 15 mins. While they did not win they got closer than most.
Cookie
[quote=âcookieâ]Q. How good are the Irish line out without hayes ?
You would be putting it up against the best lineout in the world without its most underated/important part.
If you go for shaw, he is to heavy to lift, you will need at least one more lineout option in the back row. Is Ferris a real option there, wallace is not, Heslip does his bit there, is it enough ?
This picking a team thing is getting tough!
Also what effect does playing at altitude have on the game plan ?
I read some articule a few weeks back about a s14 match that the visiting team refused to play any sort of rugby until the last 15 mins. While they did not win they got closer than most.
Cookie[/quote]
They took 1 line out against Wales while Hayes was off and it was the one where OâConnell had to reach a mile over the Welsh side and catch it with one hand. Not sure who was lifting him. Think it might have been Leamy and someone else.
[quote=âcookieâ]Q. How good are the Irish line out without hayes ?
You would be putting it up against the best lineout in the world without its most underated/important part.
If you go for shaw, he is to heavy to lift, you will need at least one more lineout option in the back row. Is Ferris a real option there, wallace is not, Heslip does his bit there, is it enough ?
This picking a team thing is getting tough!
Also what effect does playing at altitude have on the game plan ?
I read some articule a few weeks back about a s14 match that the visiting team refused to play any sort of rugby until the last 15 mins. While they did not win they got closer than most.
Cookie[/quote]
Ryan Jones is a superb operator in the lineoutâŚTom Croft is used a lot by leicester alsoâŚApart from that there isnât that many back row line out optionsâŚ
The Times has an uneditted version of the SJ article about not picking BOD or POC, this is the full BOD section, will get the POC one in a wee bit.
Joes is an utter cunt, read this shit
SJ: Is it? Well letâs go on. Letâs ask the prince of centres ⌠Walshy! Sorry, Jerry.
JG: The easy one for me to pick is OâDriscoll.
KL: Definitely.
SJ: I wouldnât have him.
KL: What?
JG: Thatâs because you are a journalist.
SJ: I wouldnât have him in my Test team.
KL: Why would you not have him? Honestly, I am worried about you writing in the paper now.
SJ: Iâll carry on as best as I can.
KL: Come on, you canât put that in there. You cannot write that.
SJ: Want a bet?
DW: I agree.
Related Links
âOâDriscoll wouldnât get in my Test teamâ
England locate heart for battles ahead
LD: I think Brian OâDriscoll has got to that stage of his career where he needs to be challenged, right. He is being challenged at the moment because he has got a new coach, who is challenging him slightly differently.
KL: Exactly Lol.
LD: And I think in a Lions context there are going to be players around him who arenât going to worship the ground he walks on and will challenge him. It will bring out the best in him because he is a champion.
DW: He was the reason I thought that Ireland beat England really. I mean his defence against England, just awesome.
JG: Yeah, him alone. Absolutely.
KL: Look how he was last year, everyone writing him off. This year he has been like that to everybody. He has come out, shown how good he is.
LD: Jonesy, we are not even having this conversation.
SJ: Yes, we are. We are having a conversation. Keith Wood was on the radio saying heâd been quiet for four years.
KL: No, seriously. You need to call yourself a taxi and come back tomorrow.
SJ: Hang on. Iâm paying the bill.
DW: OK. Justify your position.
SJ: I donât have to believe in icons, just rate players. When someone brushed him at Croke Park he stayed down for an hour and a half recovering.
[quote=âmyboyblueâ]The Times has an uneditted version of the SJ article about not picking BOD or POC, this is the full BOD section, will get the POC one in a wee bit.
Joes is an utter cunt, read this shit[/quote]
Itâs just a bit of a show. The other boys obviously saw it that way too or they wouldnât have reacted to him.
I put it up here at 33/1 before the 6N, pity I didnât fookin back it myself!
[quote=âMacâ]I can see Telfers point but is that not a very amateurish stance? The game has moved on a lot in 12 years and I donât think the height of the captain or whether he is a hard bastard should make much of a difference? OâConnell might be a great guy to have as captain on the field but I donât think he would like all the other shite that goes with it.
In a weird way, it could be a blessing in disguise if neither OâConnell or OâDriscoll are selected as captain and it allows them to focus their attention on playing rather than all the rubbish that rugby captains have to put up with. Hardly likely to happen though.[/quote]
Thought it was a great piece with Telfer. Savage insight into the technical detail i.e. JOnes carries ball in wrong hand to be an eight etc. Shit random punters like myself would never, ever, pick up on. Knew a fair bit of detail about the current scene as well, wouldnt be surprised if he is doing a bit of scouting for Geech
[quote=âcookieâ]Q. How good are the Irish line out without hayes ?
You would be putting it up against the best lineout in the world without its most underated/important part.
If you go for shaw, he is to heavy to lift, you will need at least one more lineout option in the back row. Is Ferris a real option there, wallace is not, Heslip does his bit there, is it enough ?
This picking a team thing is getting tough!
Also what effect does playing at altitude have on the game plan ?
I read some articule a few weeks back about a s14 match that the visiting team refused to play any sort of rugby until the last 15 mins. While they did not win they got closer than most.
Cookie[/quote]
Wallace is a reasonable lineout option for Munster anyways, not sure how that would translate to jumping against the best lineout around though.
My feelings exactly dan, that bit about the ball in the wrong hand was crazy, but it made sense.
Where one of these boys go, the other is never far behind, I would be shocked if Geech and Jim didnt have some dialogue over this.
Saying that, I couldnt give a fook which of them will be captain, its a thing of nothing to me.
Four in frame for Lions captaincy
OâDriscoll and OâConnell are thought to be the front-runners for the captaincy
Lions coach Ian McGeechan insists there are âstill three or four namesâ in the frame to lead the squad on their tour of South Africa this summer.
Most pundits believe it is a straight choice between Ireland duo Brian OâDriscoll and Paul OâConnell.
"The captain has got to have a strong character, the respect of others and be able to pull things together quickly.
âHeâs got to give off the right tone, and be able to deal with tricky situations,â McGeechan said.
Wales skipper Ryan Jones, England prop Phil Vickery, who McGeechan knows well as Wasps director of rugby, and Scotland captain Mike Blair could also come into contention.
McGeechan, who met with his fellow Lions coaches on Thursday to review selection after the Six Nations, insists there are still places up for grabs before he names his 35 or 36-man squad on 21 April.
It is keeping me busy. I am not seeing my wife overly at the moment
Ian McGeechan
âThe final 10 names are invariably what selection is about,â he said. âWeâve got to make sure we get the chemistry just right.â
This Saturdayâs EDF Energy Cup semi-finals, featuring Gloucester against Ospreys and Cardiff Blues against Northampton, offers an opportunity for McGeechan to guage the form of plenty of candidates.
The Heineken Cup quarter-finals in a fortnight, with the two Welsh regions the Ospreys and Blues, English sides Leicester and Bath, plus Irish provinces Munster and Leinster, also provide a stage to impress.
McGeechan has stressed that only players who are fit and in form will be included in the party that leaves for South Africa on 24 May.
That may mitigate against the late inclusion of Jonny Wilkinson, whose comeback for Newcastle after six months out with a knee injury has been delayed by at least another week.
The England fly-half, a Lion in 2001 and 2005, has only three Falcons matches left in which he could participate before McGeechan names the squad.
606: LIONS SQUAD DEBATE
I wouldnât be surprised if Andy Powell misses out. Heâs a bit unpredictable for a Lions standard No 8.
Robsandy
âWe need to leave for South Africa with 35 players fit and ready to play,â McGeechan told the Daily Telegraph. âIf someone selected then picks up a four-week injury just before we depart, theyâll have to go on standby.â
Another player currently sidelined, Wasps wing Paul Sackey, has not given up hope of making the squad despite losing his place in the England side.
Sackey has resumed running after a leg injury sustained against Ireland during the Six Nations, and hopes to return in Waspsâ Premiership game against Wilkinsonâs Newcastle a week on Sunday.
âI still think I can play my way back into the Lions squad,â he said. âIf I can get fit and start playing well again then there is a chance of getting in on the back of my form throughout the year.â
The Newcastle game will be the third for Wasps in the space of eight days starting at Saracens on Sunday, meaning McGeechan has his hands full juggling the demands of his club role with Lions duties.
âIt is keeping me busy,â he told BBC London. "Put it this way, I am not seeing my wife overly at the moment.
"I have been managing a couple of days a week at the club, but other days I have been travelling around on Lions business.
âA lot of things are in place but obviously selection is the key thing now.â
SA has hard dry pitches.
O Connell nor O Callaghan wouldnât carry water in such conditions.
O Gara was 10/17, roughly 57% for the six nations c-ship - simply not good enough.
Burger v Ferris ??? mmmhahaha
Phil Vickory will captain the side,
[quote=âtipptops*â]SA has hard dry pitches.
O Connell nor O Callaghan wouldnât carry water in such conditions.
O Gara was 10/17, roughly 57% for the six nations c-ship - simply not good enough.
Burger v Ferris ??? mmmhahaha[/quote]
Ahoy there Tipptops - where have you been for the last while?
[quote=âtipptops*â]SA has hard dry pitches.
(We know, we read the papers too)
O Connell nor O Callaghan wouldnât carry water in such conditions.
(they are big men alright)
O Gara was 10/17, roughly 57% for the six nations c-ship - simply not good enough.
(most would agree, nothing new or controversial)
Burger v Ferris ??? mmmhahaha
(ye,it would be epic alright)
Phil Vickory will captain the side
(possibly but i dout it)
[/quote]
[quote=âtipptops*â]SA has hard dry pitches.
O Connell nor O Callaghan wouldnât carry water in such conditions.
O Gara was 10/17, roughly 57% for the six nations c-ship - simply not good enough.
Burger v Ferris ??? mmmhahaha
Phil Vickory will captain the side,[/quote]
Wahey banter scanter from TT!!!
The Boks hoping to beard the Lions
By Donal Lenihan
WITH LESS than three weeks to go before Ian McGeechan announces the Lions squad to tour South Africa, every amateur pundit in Britain and Ireland is choosing their favourites to don the famous red jersey.
It is one of the great debating points that dominate rugby folk once every four years. I found it quite interesting and amusing at times to see the make-up of potential squads by respected journalists and former players when I was in possession of insider knowledge in 2001.
That said, the practice of second-guessing a Test team is frivolous in most instances as player form is a movable feast, and performances on tour both in training and in the warm-up games is paramount in selecting the side. That is even more significant on this tour as, with the exceptions of Paul OâConnell, Brian OâDriscoll, Lee Byrne and possibly Gethin Jenkins, selection for the first test in Durban on June 20 is wide open.
For the moment, however, I will put myself in the position of the Lions management and cast an eye on the likely personnel that the Lions will face over the course of the six week tour with particular reference to the Super 14 tournament which is up and running with seven rounds of games played to date.
Of chief concern to McGeechan will be the presence of the Natal Sharks and the Blue Bulls in first and third position in a highly competitive table, both with just one defeat to date.
A bit like Munster and Leinster for Ireland, those two teams will supply the majority of Springbok players for the Test series and have a similar base, with the Bulls likely to contribute the bulk of the forward unit and the Sharks a majority of the backline. An outright win in the tournament for one of those two sides would provide the perfect boost prior to the test series for the hosts.
One of the primary targets for the Lions management will be to find an combination to defeat the twin towers of Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha in the South African lineout. Matfield has returned to Pretoria after a brief but unsuccessful stint with Toulon after the World Cup and is reunited with his long-term locking partner with the Bulls. It is no coincidence that they were unbeaten up to last weekend when they were on the receiving end of a surprise 36-12 defeat at the hands of the Highlanders, without the impressive leadership of Matfield who is injured at present.
Third choice second row, the towering Andreas Bekker is also playing very impressive rugby with the Stormers, not only providing quality lineout ball â as one would expect with his 6â9" height advantage â but is also increasingly dynamic around the field.
To compete against the Springboks, McGeechan must assemble a combative front five. There is a suggestion that South African coach Peter de Villiers may persist with playing his captain John Smit at tight-head prop where he lined out without any great impact on the autumn tour of Britain. This, in part, is in recognition of the fact that the Boks have two class hookers in addition to Smit in Bismark du Plessis â rotating the number two shirt with Smit at the Sharks â and the Stormersâ Schalk Britz who plays a bit like Keith Wood but with a wingerâs pace and the hands of a centre. Scary thought. He is a bit on the small side for a South African hooker, which is holding him back at present.
Retaining Smit at tight-head where he has featured only once in the Super 14 this season would be a major plus for the Lions as it would depower the South African scrum. Sharks coach John Plumtree has reservations about playing him there and has selected him out of position just once, the only game they lost. It remains to be seen what de Villiers will do.
On the evidence of the Super 14, South Africa have a truck load of big, strong, pacey back-row forwards all in form and fighting for inclusion in the Test series. Of those, the tried and tested trio of Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Pierre Spies are very much on top of their game. Spies, who missed the World Cup due to injury looks the consummate athlete. He has bulked up considerably during his enforced absence but has retained the freakish pace that saw him play on the wing at one stage. At 6â5" he is some sight in full flow. Fighting tooth and nail for inclusion in that back row is another dynamic number eight Ryan Kankowski of the Sharks, World Cup winner Dannie Rossouw, Joe Van Niekerk who has moved to France, the controversial Luke Watson and Jacques Botes.
AT scrum-half the form of Ricky Januarie for the Stormers has been excellent while Fourie du Preez, rated the best number nine in the world in 2007 is slowly rediscovering his form with the Bulls despite being outplayed by All Black Jimmy Cowen last weekend. The dark horse could well be Rory Kockott who has been sensational for the Sharks since Ruan Pienaarâs move to out-half. He has pace to burn.
The most crucial question facing de Villiers is the pivotal out-half role. The man in possession, Butch James, has now played continuous rugby for almost two years since moving to Bath after the World Cup. He is in excellent form at present but one wonders how long more he can last without a break.
On their November tour, de Villiers omitted James and experimented with some success with Pienaar. He is a natural footballer but you wonder if he has the necessary game management skills to direct a series of this nature. Another potential option is Francois Steyn but he looked ill-equipped for the role when tried there by the Sharks against the Brumbies last Saturday.
Jean de Villiers and Adrian Jacobs look certain to form the midfield partnership, with Jacque Fourie also in the running, while Bryan Habana and JP Pietersen â who is scoring tries for fun these days â set to start on the wings. Full-back represents another area of uncertainty since the retirement of Percy Montgomery from the international stage. Veteran former Osprey Stefan Terblanche, who made his international debut against Ireland all of 11 years ago, is flying at present and will offer a serious challenge to Conrad Jantjes who played in the three autumn internationals.
With the Cheetahs and the Golden Lions propping up the Super 14 table, the South African sides are not getting it all their own way. It is clear however that the Springboks have a sufficient player base to make every game both competitive and difficult for the tourists.
It will also be instructive to see whether de Villiers makes his front line players available for the provincial games against the Sharks, Western Province, the Cheetahs and Golden Lions or hold them in reserve for the test series as Graham Henry did in New Zealand in 2005. The Lions management arenât the only ones with important decisions to make.