Lions tour of SA - thoughts & speculation

Sport
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If only I did say that mac :D…

82

The Lions are going to get a serious mauling by the looks of what I’m reading here. The Lions are only any good when they are strongly backboned by good, strong English players, with some Welsh thrown in and a token Scotch/Irish player. If this team is going to be mostly made up of Non-English one would have to fear for them. Only the English have the mentality needed on these tours…ffs these lads won a World War, while the Irish hid away.

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did you mean to post this under one of your aliases ?

84

Will someone please explain why Mike Blair’s position as the starting scrum half is sacrosanct?
I can’t see him being as far ahead of the likes of Phillips, Care or O’Leary as say O’Connell or Byrne are ahead of their respective rivals.
Tokenism?

85

[quote=“treaty_exile”]Will someone please explain why Mike Blair’s position as the starting scrum half is sacrosanct?
I can’t see him being as far ahead of the likes of Phillips, Care or O’Leary as say O’Connell or Byrne are ahead of their respective rivals.
Tokenism?[/quote]

Phillips is a cert.

I wouldnt even bring Blair on tour, he isnt physical enough i dont think for what wil lbe required

86

Would agree with you there dan, despite being a bit of a sickening cunt Phillips looks like a shoe in…The other 2 spots between Care, O leary, Peel, Ellis, Blair etc…

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By Hugh Farrelly

Tuesday March 03 2009

WITH a brief respite before the hype cranks up again for the next step on Ireland’s potential Grand Slam odyssey, away to Scotland in Edinburgh, it is a good time to see where we stand vis-a-vis the Lions’ summer jaunt to South Africa.

With three months to go before Ian McGeechan leads his men southward, the vagaries of form and injury mean categorical conclusions are impossible and the parameters for selection at this juncture are participation in the Six Nations over the first three rounds.

It is also relevant to throw in some wildcard selections, featuring players who have not yet played in this season’s tournament and may not feature in the final two instalments either but could still be suited up come June.

Based on what we’ve seen in February, Ireland and Wales will dominate selection, with the Irish particularly demonstrating a traffic light-like capacity to turn green into Lions red.

Irish players are presently displaying tremendous self-belief and confidence under Declan Kidney. It is an environment that has brought through players who would not have been in the reckoning at the start of the season, such as Ulster’s Stephen Ferris, who is in supreme form and now a front-runner for the No 6 Lions jersey.

Whatever happens between now and Ireland’s final Six Nations outing in Cardiff , Ireland will have a big say in this tour as everything’s gone green for the Lions under Kidney’s new order.

LIONS XV

Selection restricted to involvement in Six Nations to date; wildcard selections based on players who have not featured in the tournament so far.

15 Lee Byrne

(Wales)

Incredibly tight between Byrne and Ireland’s Rob Kearney, with England’s Delon Armitage the best of the rest. Kearney is security personified – vital in the South African pressure cooker. Byrne, while not in the same high-fielding league, is tremendously effective running onto the ball, although Kearney has not had enough opportunities to show what he can do in this regard. Byrne just shades it after his wonderful angled try against the French last Friday.

14 Luke Fitzgerald

(Ireland)

England’s Paul Sackey probably has the slight edge in pace and Tommy Bowe has been playing superbly but Fitzgerald’s class must be accommodated and, with Shane Williams seemingly destined for the Irishman’s left-wing slot, a switch to the right is feasible. Fitzgerald has form at 14, scoring a hat-trick for Leinster against Edinburgh last September.

13 Brian O’Driscoll

(Ireland)

O’Driscoll is building superbly towards his final Lions tour. Inspirational for Ireland with three tries from three outings and a clutch of turnovers. His bravery and game-changing abilities will be vital. Mike Tindall is going well for England but one-dimensional by comparison, while Tom Shanklin can play at 12.

12 Tom Shanklin

(Wales)

Jamie Roberts has been a revelation at inside centre for the Welsh but is something of a one-trick pony. Shanklin has raw power also but brings more variety and would work well alongside O’Driscoll. Of the rest, the pacy Max Evans has shone for Scotland.

11 Shane Williams

(Wales)

There are concerns Williams’ lack of size will be exploited by South Africa, as it was by the All Blacks in 2005, but the World Player Of The Year has enjoyed success against the ‘Boks in the past and his lethal finishing and unpredictability demand inclusion. Aside from Fitzgerald, England’s Mark Cueto and Scotland’s Thom Evans have done well but are not in Williams’ league.

Wildcards: Josh Lewsey (England) – Martin Johnson may not want him but Lewsey is far from a beaten docket and Ian McGeechan knows his value from Wasps. His toughness and ability to play centre, wing or full-back weighs heavily in his favour.

Keith Earls (Ireland) – A superb talent, as versatile as Lewsey, who would sparkle on South Africa’s hard pitches.

10 Stephen Jones

(Wales)

Seen as the solid option ahead of the mercurial James Hook but Jones is able to break the gain-line, kicks and passes well and is dependable with the placed ball. Hook is almost sure to travel also with Ronan O’Gara next in line. O’Gara may not have been at his best but it is hard to see his experience and game-directing abilities being left behind.

9 Mike Blair

(Scotland)

England have scrum-half problems while Ireland’s Tomas O’Leary and Peter Stringer will push for selection but Scotland and Wales are likely to provide three No 9s with Blair top of the pile.

Scotland’s captain ticks all the relevant boxes and brings leadership qualities. Mike Philips’ physical approach puts him in the frame and 2005 Lion Dwayne Peel is favourite for the third slot.

Wildcards: Jonny Wilkinson (England) – Due for his latest return from injury at the end of the month and has a CV that merits consideration.

Danny Cipriani (England) – Undeniably talented, Cipriani’s reputation for flakiness makes him a long-shot. An England recall and two focused displays would put him in the picture.

Eoin Reddan (Ireland) – A quality, experienced scrum-half, the fact that McGeechan is a Reddan fan from Wasps puts the Irishman in the mix.

1 Andrew Sheridan

(England)

Sheridan is coming back into his best form and the Lions need him at his peak for a torrid scrummaging battle. Gethin Jenkins is quality back-up while Marcus Horan is doing superbly for Ireland, but this jersey is Sheridan’s.

2 Jerry Flannery

(Ireland)

Lee Mears had a decent game for England last weekend but is too small to be seriously considered at Lions level. Dylan Hartley is a better bet but having a Kiwi on a Lions tour sticks in the craw (though Harltey, Riki Flutey and Australian Nathan Hines have a shot). Scotland’s Ross Ford is a big hooker and good at the basics while Ireland’s Rory Best would be a worthy tourist.

However, Flannery is efficiency itself and his lineout link with Paul O’Connell weighs heavily in his favour.

3 Euan Murray

(Scotland)

Former England captain Phil Vickery looks like yesterday’s man and, while Ireland’s John Hayes and Wales’ Adam Jones are holding their hands up for selection, the Test tight-head slot will go to the most destructive scrummager. Murray is a beast and had the Italians in all sorts of bother last weekend.

Wildcard: Tony Buckley (Ireland) – A real long shot given his difficult season thus far. Has size, ground-gaining potential and ability to play both sides of the scrum in his favour but it would require a stupendous March, April and May for ‘Mushy’ to make the plane.

4 Donncha O’Callaghan

(Ireland)

May not get the headlines his second-row partner accumulates but O’Callaghan’s ceaseless toil and turnover-winning abilities are crucial to Ireland’s forward effort. Under Gert Smal, O’Callaghan does not give away the penalties he used to and is a better lineout option that Welsh counterpart Ian Gough. Alun-Wyn Jones is a fine second-row but playing him with Paul O’Connell would mean moving one of them out of the middle jumping slot and the Welshman does not have O’Callaghan’s graft.

5 Paul O’Connell

(Ireland)

Streets ahead of the opposition, with Alun-Wyn Jones and England’s Nick Kennedy his closest rivals. Despite his best efforts, the 2005 Lions tour was not O’Connell’s happiest experience but he is in exceptional form now and will be the totem of the Lions forwards.

Wildcards: Simon Shaw (England) – Now in his mid-thirties, Shaw was with the Lions on their last trip to South Africa in 1997. Unwanted by England – who bizarrely still rate Steve Borthwick – but McGeechan knows Shaw’s worth form Wasps and could find room for his size and nous on a tough tour.

6 Stephen Ferris

(Ireland)

The consensus is that the experience of Ryan Jones must be worked into the back row but the Wales captain looks unhappy away from his preferred No 8 position and is struggling to wield the influence of yore. Ferris is a Springbok-type blindside and has been phenomenal for Ireland, employing his brute strength to devastating effect.

James Haskell, Jason White and Denis Leamy all have justifiable claims as tourists but Ferris has been the stand-out No 6 thus far.

7 Martyn Williams

(Wales)

Warren Gatland knew exactly what he was doing when the coaxed the veteran out of retirement and Williams is arguably Wales’ most influential player. A natural No 7 who combines ball-winning ability with exceptional link play, Williams would relish a last hurrah.

David Wallace is excelling at openside for Ireland and Joe Worsley is in Lions form for England in a defensive role but is better suited to the blindside.

8 David Wallace

(Ireland)

Wallace’s performances this season make him the form back-row in Europe and, if Williams gets the nod on the open flank, Wallace could switch to his Munster position of No 8, where his ability to make ground off the base of the scrum would be invaluable. The other options include Wales’ powerful but one-dimensional Andy Powell, the athleticism of Scotland’s Simon Taylor and Ireland’s Jamie Heaslip, who deserves to travel based on his displays to date.

Ryan Jones will also be looking to revert to No 8 but a back row of Ferris, Williams and Wallace brings balance and power.

Wildcard: Tom Rees (England) – Another player McGeechan knows well from Wasps, Rees is a superb openside who has speed, ball skills and, crucially, the hard edge required for this trip. Recovering from a knee tear, Rees could well make a late push.

Player breakdown: Ireland 7, Wales 5, Scotland 2, England 1.

  • Hugh Farrelly
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[quote=“myboyblue”]

Player breakdown: Ireland 7, Wales 5, Scotland 2, England 1.

  • Hugh Farrelly[/quote]

:slight_smile:

He has little to be doing with his time. Can never see that type of breakdown for players on a Lions starting test XV.

89

[quote=“myboyblue”]By Hugh Farrelly

[/quote]

Buckley for the Lions??, Irish fans with typewriters losing the run of themselves as usual

90

lee byrne is a good bit ahead of Kearney, i don’t even see it close.
Ryan Jones will be in the test team, somewhere.
Fitzgerald wont.
O Callaghan wont, Wyn jones a lot more likely id say.

Buckley and Earls surely haven’t a hope

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Yea I’d agree with a lot of what ye said, but I think DOC and POC will start in the 2nd row, especially if POC gets capt. Luke wont get a look in, I give Kearns a fighting chance.

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Byrne is miles ahead of Kearney attacking wise. Cant see them picking Kearney unless Bynre has a few shockers or they slot Kearney in on the wing.

Fitz has a chance of touring and if you tour you have a chance of playing in the tests no question. He is decent size, agressive with excellent technique, if he got enough ball he could do serious damage.

Ryan Jones is playing v poorly so he is not the cert he was a few months ago.

Historically the Welsh are not great tourists (v clannish I think) so this might counter the natural Gatland/Edwards Welsh bias. Cant see Ireland having that many starters though in fairness, DOC/Flannery/Ferris are all marginal calls.

BTW Ferris is still 16/1 to start the first test with Boyles if you think HUgh Farrelly is right (and there is always a first time)

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must have a look at that market actually dan… there are always a few outside bets. Would have gotten a big price about Paul Wallace and Jeremy Davidson on the last SA trip. If Ferris makes the trip they will be massively impressed with him when they see him training, supposed to be an unbelievable trainer.

Think Kearney will slot in on the wing myself. Ferris over Jones would be a masive call, but you never know.

94

What about the captaincy. I would have thought Jones, O’Driscoll and O’Connell were the ones to be in the shake up but Jones isn’t getting on the team according to some. O’Connell has the one locked down and secure place on the team though BOD is playing some stuff.

I’d say POC.

95

Had a discussion about the Lions squad with a friend of mine earlier today, think we reckoned that McGeechan will be something like this(36 man squad, 19 forwards and 17 backs)…

Forwards:
Front row:
Sheridan
Vickery
Horan
Murray
Jenkins
Flannery
Ford
Rees

Second Row:
O Connell
O Callaghan
Wyn Jones
Gough
Kenndy/Hines

Back Row:
Wallace
Williams
R.Jones
Ferris
Haskell/Worsley
Powell

Backs:
Scrum halves:
Phillips
Blair
O Leary/Peel

Outhalves:Jones
O Gara
Cipriani

Wings:
S. Williams
Bowe
Halfpenney
Sackey

Centres:
Flutey
O Driscoll
Shanklin
Roberts

Fullback:
Byrne
Kearney
Armitage

96

Would like to see Best make the squad though he hasn’t been his usual self in last couple of matches. If he is in the squad think he could do well on tour. Paddy Wallace and Hook could offer something different at 12.

97

Why arent Italy and France part of the Lions too? This whole thing is a sham and a hint to our colonial past. If the Brits want a team by themselves fine. BOD got badly fucked up on the last tour also. I really fucking hate the British Lions farce

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Hook won’t be far off, just have the feeling that they won’t take 4 welsh half backs, can’t see Paddy Wallace making the tour to be honest barring him playing completely out of skin in the next few weeks, too light…

99

Johnny Wilkinson will start at out half for the British Lions.

100

correct