Remember Ronaldo’s header for United againt Roma in the CL quarters a few years back? Really top class. Threw himself at it, brave and powerful.
Pretty bizarre hierarchy there. Ashley Cole above Iniesta and Schweinsteiger in terms of world footballers? De Jong on the same level as those two? No mention of Essien?
You’re criticising someone for missing the point 
Lovely
Anyway, you said Messi wasn’t a threat in the air and I was pointing out he’d managed to make himself a threat in the air in the biggest club match in Europe.
Messi for me anyway. Not so much based on ability but based on the attitude of both players. Rarely have I seen Messi thrown a strop when things don’t go his way and even if he’s been hacked around the place he’ll continue to try and play rather than always looking for a free.
yeah no mention of essien. not in the same class as any of those players imo. Doesnt score that many goals for a box to box midfielder and his passing lacks zip and guile. As a holding midfielder I think he is well overrated remember the great Stevie G giving him a total runaround in a Champs League semi was it a couple of seasons back. Great athlete alright but a good player not a great player imo. Would rate Lampard a superior player at Chelsea.
Dont think there is anyone more effective than De Jong at protecting a back four in world football. Spain only got going after he was taken off in the World Cup final, that was a shit Dutch defence he was protecting too and he did it superbly. Ashley Cole is a superb left back, consistently has got the better of Ronaldo is a heap of duels. To be honest that game against Germany was the only high profile one I can recall him having a stinker in.
The one thing i really love about Messi as a player is despite his small stature he is extremely strong on the ball and very seldom seems to be knocked or pushed off it, his balance is also excellent…Both are excellent footballers and are a notch above anything else that is around at the moment…
Point out where I said Messi wasnt a threat in the air (the re reading my post tactic doesnt seem to have worked thus far :rolleyes: )… yes you pointed out he scored in the Champs League final. Sure point out some other irrelevant stuff like the fact he is Argentinian and likes to wear flowers in his hair if you want aswell. Wont make you any less wrong though.
Ronaldo is better than probably any forward player around in the air. It is hardly a slight on Messi that Ronaldo is better than him at heading the ball.
Messi was far better than Ronaldo in the World Cup. He was carrying the team on his back and often had to drop deep into his own half to get the ball because the midfield was so disjointed. You can hardly blame him for taking the wrong option a few times in that scenario. Despite not scoring a goal he was Argentina’s best player. Ronaldo apart from scoring a couple of goals against a pub team did nothing except roll around on the ground in any of the other matches.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Cole is an excellent player. And probably as good of a full back in world football. I remember Clarkey unjustifiably getting dogs abuse for selecting him in a World XI back in 2006. But he is quality.
However selecting a left back, and someone who can only play in that position, as one of the world’s best players is strange imo. Particularly when you have the likes of Schweinstiger and Iniesta lower down the list. Players who dictate a game, who influence it much more than a left back does. Cole does his job extremely well but his influence on the game is smaller than the other two lads given his limited position.
Can’t agree on Essien. This kind of relates back to my Cole point but versatility is a huge plus in a player. Essien can play in numerous different positions. I don’t recall Stevie G giving him a runaround, in fact I recall Essien dominating in Anfield from centre midfield back in 2009 in a 3-1 victory. Also I think he is a much more rounded midfielder than the one trick screen and hacker that is Nigel De Jong.
“Ronaldo is one of the best players I have ever seen in the air.”
“Ronaldo is better than probably any forward player around in the air.”
I don’t agree with the second of those two statements and I’d seriously doubt the first is true unless you’ve only started watching football recently. Ronaldo is not better than the likes Klose, Drogba, Dzeko etc. etc. in the air. He’s good, and he’s particularly good for the type of player he is (winger) but he’s miles off being the best player in the world aerially. You don’t even mention strikers alone in your first statement so the likes of Nesta, Maldini, Puyol, Hierro, Ayala… presume you’ve seen those play at some stage?
The glorification of De Jong is more bizarre though. He’s not giving that City back four all that much protection. Ahead of Essien? Same level as Schweinsteiger and Iniesta? Clown.
to be honest I dont care that you disagree with any of my posts. I think Ronaldo is as good as Klose, Drogba or anyone for that matter in the air if not better.
De Jong has been missing for City recently I believe. Saw him when they beat Chelsea and he was superb. At his role as defensive midfielder I think he is better than Essien. About as much point comparing him to Iniesta as there is to Buffon. Schweinsteiger hasnt been playing centre midfield all that long and was well outplayed against Spain. Had a fine World Cup but a bit more to do. Iniesta is a fine player but again Id rate Xavi a bit better.
Think it was the Champs League semi second leg a couple of years ago. Game was in Stamford Bridge. Chelsea were ahead from the first leg but Liverpool played very well on the night and were unlucky to lose out. Essien was the designated holding midfielder but was completely lost and kept getting dragged out of position. Liverpool a long way off that level now. Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard and Torres all were combining well then.
Ronnie Whelan had it on the radio as well this morning that Bale is the new Messi. Did you ever hear such shite?!!
Gerrard wasn’t playing that night. He was injured.
:rolleyes:
Alonso was playing though and was superb.
With regard to Essien:
Want to talk about his performance in the 2006 World Cup for Ghana against Italy?
Or his performance in the first leg of the match you refer to?
Or his performance in the subsequent semi final that season where they lost out to Barcelona (in both legs)?
Or in general the various other top level matches he has played for Chelsea?
Stiill though - Nigel De Jong eh?
I must have the games mixed up. Pretty sure Gerrard would have been playing - I do recall Essien struggling badly so cant see what other Liverpool player bar Gerrard doing the damage. When did Riise get the og - was that in the first leg that year?
Yeah Essien had some great games in many positions, he is a very good player but look at Frank Lampard’s record. For a centre midfielder the amount of goals he scores at club level is unreal and even international 20 goals in 76 caps if wiki is to be believed. Essien cant do that, dont think he is any better of a passer than Lampard, he can get around the park slightly better perhaps and win the ball more but Lampard is no slouch at that side of the game either. All in all Id rank Lampard a superior player and I still wouldnt have him that high up on the world list. In the crucial thread area of in the air - Lampard would be superior Id say. Remember Ronaldo beating Essien to score in the Champs League final, actually using Mac’s argument - that kind of seals it.
A number of posters on this site had written Bale off not so long ago. Good to see both himself and Aaron Lennon terrorising the Inter full backs last night. Always knew they would come good
robbie keane is proper fucked at Spurs by the way. Hard to know where Defoe will fit in either.
So De Jong has switched to Lampard now. I rate Lampard, not as much as I rate Essien, but I won’t get into a debate about that because soon you’ll switch it to Xavi Alonso or someone like that.
Essien played right back in the second leg after Riise’s og. And played superbly might I add - particularly in extra time in that game. He may have even scored a scorcher from outside the box but I stand corrected on that.
What about his header against United, sheer class, best header like that i’d seen till Hernadez last week.
In fairness to KIB, Christ I don’t say that much, I don’t think he was saying that Messi is poor in the air. Just that Ronaldo is better.
Which isn’t a ludricous argument.
I know, i read it like everyone else now that i read back. He is right about it really.
Ronaldo’s form though is confirming one thing, there is nobody like Jose. Brilliant manager. Put a few bob on Real for tonight, this is the type of game Mourinho loves. AC are down a few as well.
I think Ronaldo’s form has been superb for a few seasons now. Again, that is not to take anything away from Mourinho. The best manager in recent times by some distance.
I am not a gambler but I would put money on Real for the Champions League now. They have the players alright, they have always had those, but now they have Mourinho.
I should have qualified, he is getting even “more” out of Ronaldo this year, and is clearly more of a team player.
While it is established that Ronaldo is better in the air than Messi it’s another leap to proclaim him as the best in the air in world football today and the best you’ve ever seen in the air. He’s not that good for fuck’s sake. He’s very much a threat in the air but he doesn’t dominate. Even someone like Borghetti or Jardel was far more effective in the air. Not in the same class as Ronaldo at everything else obviously but if it’s worth making a point it’s worth avoiding hyperbole.
KIB is doing his best to muddy the waters on De Jong by introducing Lampard as the comparison to Essien when nobody disputed him in the first place. Hardly surprising really considering putting De Jong in the same bracket as Iniesta is breathtakingly foolish.
De Jong hasn’t been playing much recently for City but he was there all last season when their midfield was like a sieve and for much of the season before. He was a bit exposed by the fact successive managers played the likes of Ireland alongside him but he’s played a fair bit there with Kompany and Barry and others and was part of a team that conceded far too many goals. Anyway it’s ludicrous to be talking about De Jong in that class. He’s not even close to that level.
Finally, hard to understand why the person who makes this comparison:
“Who would be on the next level - Id have Eto’o up there. proved he can play anywhere up front, dont think David Villa is there yet. Xavi certainly, Drogba, Ashley Cole (shit in the world cup but generally superb), cant think of anymore. Think the likes of Tevez, Rooney, De Jong, Alonso, Sneijder, Schweinsteiger, Iniesta would be a level below”
would then go on and make the following statement when he was challenged on it:
“About as much point comparing him [De Jong] to Iniesta as there is to Buffon.”
Why make the comparison yourself in the first place then fucktard?