funnily enough ive heard the most bigoted Australians say the same things about the indigenous Australians here- it must be awful to share the views of them.
nobody wants to be disadvantaged ffs
I think in polarised debates like this the truth is somewhere in the middle.
The tar them all with the same brush attitude, puns aside, is obviously wrong. There are many decent Irish law abiding travellers. Also the
venom directed towards them is completely disproportionate and always has been. The reason the country is in a mess has nothing to
do with even the worse of them. Travellers have been a convenient scapegoat for all kinds of things over the years.
However I do take issue with the whole the Govt doesn’t nothing for them’ attitude. I know people who teach in VEC schools that travellers go to and those schools particularly in the good times got every grant going. Free everything practically for many disadvantaged kids but still particularly for travellers very few of them saw it through to sitting Leaving Cert. Travellers in Clare anyway were very well taken care of in the not too distant past with community houses which in many cases was just shamefully abused.
Again those who work with travellers would be
quick to tell you that travellers know all about their rights but less about their responsibilities. But time and time again, even if you watch programmes the young people display a real lack of confidence. Their community is so insular that the abuse they receive within the confines of that community is far worse than anything from country people. As much as the State has pumped money into improving their lives unfortunately there has been no real increase in their quality of life. I honestly don’t know how the State can intervene more to break that cycle. The hope would be that role models like Nevin emerge to serve as an inspiration to their kids. Change can only really come from within.
the state pump millions into settled communities suffering from disadvantage- you can stay the exact same thing about quality life among disadvantage settled people- what can the state do to break the cycle amongst disadvantaged settled people?
Joint Statement on Cuts to Traveller Education
February 3rd, 2011
This statement was made by the ITM, National Traveller Women’s Forum and Pavee Point Travellers’ Centre
Budgetary cuts in Traveller education are disproportionate compared to financial cutbacks of other mainstream educational cuts
Support for Traveller Education Slashed while the Government Minister Mary Coughlan T.D. states that the Budget 2011 is
‘A budget that recognises the critical role of the education and skills sector to Ireland’s future prospects’.
As Traveller children and young people begin to make inroads into the education system (DES, 2008) the State in one move dismantles all the supports to Traveller children and families and dissipates the department expertise on Traveller issues.
WITHDRAWAL OF RESOURCE TEACHERS POSTS FOR TRAVELLERS AT PRIMARY LEVEL
WITHDRAWAL OF TEACHING HOURS FOR TRAVELLERS IN POST PRIMARY
WITHDRAWAL OF VISITING TEACHERS FOR TRAVELLERS (42 POSTS) SEPT 2011
PHASING OUT OF ALL SENIOR TRAVELLER TRAINING CENTRES JUNE 2012
In 2008 Minister O’Keeffe states ‘Clearly, we have made huge progress in helping Travellers to access education and the figures bear that out’.
He continued by giving a commitment that the State would
‘continue to support Traveller students’ access to all levels of education so that they are optimally positioned to benefit from the learning opportunities that will stand to them in later life’.
In the recently launched (DEC, 2010) ‘State of the Nations Children Report’ (OMC, 2010) it states that
almost half of the total Traveller population of Ireland are under18 years of age and that approximately 6 out of every 10 Traveller children (58.9%) lived in families where the mother had either no formal education or primary education only.
The report also highlights the high level of children living in consistent poverty in Ireland. Traveller children are no exception to this and in fact experience both poverty and high levels of discrimination (Our Geels, 2010).
The impact of these cuts on Travellers’ educational provision was recently highlighted by the children’s charity Barnardos. In their analysis they stated ‘The cuts to Traveller-specific services is a short-sighted saving that will cement intergenerational cycles of disadvantage in the Traveller community’.
As a recent Equality Tribunal (Equality Tribunal, 2010) case shows Travellers continue to experience challenges in accessing schools. Although the Traveller family won their case the child has not been offered a place in the school. The school is appealing against the decision of the Equality Tribunal. Without supports for Travellers to gain access to school this type of situation will go unchallenged and Traveller children will continue to be discriminated in the Education System.
The UN Committee on the Right of the Child highlighted their concern in their Concluding Observations on Ireland Report 2006
‘The committee remains concerned, however, that adequate recognition, action and positive measures have not yet been taken to enhance the enjoyment of the rights of children belonging to the Traveller community and in particular to facilitate their access to education, housing and health services.’
The Convention on the Rights of the Child (which Ireland has signed) is specifically aimed at protecting the human rights of children; as well as the universal rights to freedom from discrimination and freedom from interference with the home and family, children are granted the right to education, among other things. These rights depend upon each other, and in the case of Travellers, it can be seen that the discrimination that they face can be a severe obstacle to education.
The budgetary cuts in Traveller education are disproportionate compared to financial cutbacks of other mainstream educational cuts. These cuts are short sighted and display a disregard for the Traveller child and young Traveller and their future life chances. It also comes on top of cuts in the school transport scheme for Traveller children, which will also have an impact on some Traveller children accessing education. Resources deployed by the Department of Education and Skills targeted to support Traveller children have shown that Traveller children are beginning to make strides throughout the Education System. We also know that much work remains to be done to ensure Traveller children remain in school until leaving certificate, access third level and gain employment in Irish Society. Traveller organisations have consistently called for the review of Traveller services in line with the Traveller Education Strategy to ensure efficiency and value for money. To date no review has taken place. This means that these educational cuts were not made in the best interests of Traveller children and young Travellers.
Traveller organisations sit on the Traveller Education Consultative Advisory Forum (TECAF) which oversees the implementation of the Traveller Education Strategy (TES, 2006). Traveller organisations were not informed of or consulted about the budget cuts to Traveller education. As part of the Education Strategy Traveller Representative Organisations are given a role in supporting the Strategy’s implementation and in the monitoring and evaluation of the measures. These cuts are not in keeping with the TES actions mapped out, nor the recommendations for the enhancement or support for Travellers in Education.
These cuts will have serious consequences for the education of Traveller children and young people. This decision is of grave concern to Traveller organisations and Traveller families.
The National Traveller Women’s Forum, Pavee Point and the Irish Traveller Movement call on the Minister to postpone these cuts, review and ring fence funds for Traveller education. Travellers need an explanation for these cuts to Traveller support services and in keeping with the Traveller Education Strategy also need a review of the Education provision to Traveller children and young people. This should happen through the Traveller Education Consultative Advisory Forum.
We also insist that there is an emergency meeting of the Traveller Education Consultative Advisory Forum to address these issues as a matter of urgency.
TASE, The state can put all the facilities it likes in place to help the disadvantaged but if those disadvantaged people don’t want to change or help themselves then little is going change. It has to be a 2 way street, support from the state but also the disadvantaged wanting to make the change to get out of the cycle.
and where does the racism and discrimination of the settled community fit into this blame game of yours?
What about Dunph’s flower pots?
The unfortunately reality is that a lot of that money and effort by the State is wasted. I’d much prefer if that funding was incentivized to help those to do well.
Saw it too often in college even in my day, lads coming from difficult upbringing, doing well in the leaving, first from family to go to uni and all that. Then getting there and pissing it all away. Difficult without the support structure behind you but at some stage the individual has to take responsibility for their own actions.
Taking responsibility for one’s actions is something an awful lot of travellers struggle with too.
Throwing money at a problem will not fix it, we must go much deeper than that. Young travelers are born into an environment that does not value what we would consider normal values.
Young travelers are lacking role models. Johnjoe Nevin is a role model and would’nt it be great if he was employed on behalf of the state to give motivational talks not just for travel children but also non traveler children.
Would’nt it be great if there were traveler doctors, lawyers etc giving similar talks to groups of traveling children.
ill get them back for him when I return to Ireland-thats a promise
Nevin would likely be ostracised in the travelling community for doing that. There is nothing stopping travellers who have done well for themselves doing that now either. Aside from Nevin where are their role models and why aren’t they stepping forward?
Fenway, yes that would be great to see doctors, lawyers and every other job type under the sun, filled with people from the traveling community. But unless there is a total mind shift in traveling community then this wont happen, unless they take on personal responsibility to help themselves with the assistance of the state then maybe we can see an improvement.
TASE, we could go around in circles as has been done arguing who is responsible for this, that and the other. Lets face facts here the majority of people in the country didn’t just wake up one day, as Runt said, and decide I tell ya what lets treat travelers like shite. It was the behavior of certain elements of the traveling community over time that brought on this behavior towards the them. So as I said it will take work on both sides to change this, travelers will have to change their way’s and one people see a change in their behavior then people will start changing their attitudes to travelers.
I don’t know KIB, and that is being truthful. I would love to know how many travelers have gone through the education system and gone onto be doctors, solicitors, teachers etc. I would guess very few.
This is something we learn from our elders/role models. If personal responsibilty is not being reinforced from a young age you are hardly going to adopt it later in life.
there is a big push within the traveler community for role models to come forward and of course they have. ive been in numerous community groups where there is excellent literature and posters of traveler role models.id assume this information would be more widely distributed at specific traveler centres
But if you could take a random sample from another similarily disadvantaged group, Ballymun, Southhill etc there would be
more than very few success stories.
To be honest, it’s time the hard truths were told. The traveller ‘culture’ is a sham and those that want to improve their quality of life would be far better off shunning the insular overbearing nature of their community and starting out afresh as just an Irish person same as anyone else.
yes- southill with its murders,drive bys,drug addiction,drug pushers etc etc is the benchmark :rolleyes:
If only it were that simple.
+1
KIB man transferring his own life experience onto the travelling community