Munster, celtic league, heineken cup, general and tag rugby thread 🐐

Sport
1041

Munsters game has changed mainly due to the change in personnel they have and particularly this season due to the change in rules. If you are talking about the change in styles I would say Leinsters is far more pronounced, they have moved away from the Harlem Globetrotters stuff and now play a far more forward orientated game, maybe even more so than Munster do.

Leinster appear to have realized that the most attractive rugby wasn’t the best way of getting to their ultimate goal, winning the HEC. They are a far better, if less attractive to watch, team as a result.

Munsters success levels are obviously the IRFU benchmark for all its teams, I think that is self explanatory.

BTW, my comment re Leinster using Munster as a benchmark wasn’t derogotary. I have consistently said on here that I would love to see Leinster doing well and that if they were in a HEC final Id cheer them almost as much as I would for Munster. Surprisingly the common theme amongst my Leinster fan colleagues today was relief that Munster didn’t win!

1042

Lads
There’s been a lot lost sight of in this thread, hasn;t there?
Fact: Munster B’s lost narrowly to the All Black B’s despite the fact that the All Black players should be of a higher standard and have more experience.
Fact: the Munster lads gave a great show of commitment and physicality to make a match of it with the All Blacks, nothing wrong with that or with saying that.
Fact: the Media have a wet dream over Munster because they sell papers, because people watch them on the TV or listen on the radio. That’s what the media do. The irony of this thread getting over 1000 posts shouldn’t be lost on anyone here- eh?
Is the Munster by grace of god bollocks annoying? Yes
Do they think that they are god’s gift to rugby in Ireland? Yes
Is this really fucking annoying, yes
Do they do marketing well- yes. Fair play, this is a business after all and “Brand Munster” is all about generating revenue.
Was the “Munster Haka” one of the most cringeworthy things ever seen…

Leave them off to it though, Leinster could take a note from both the marketing and the commitment of the players.

WBY

1043

[quote=“Gman”]challenge game, whatever the Munster hype want to call it to try give it some value.

I seem to recall a certain Munster no.10 who has bottled his fair share of oppertunities. as well as losing 2 finals and 3 semi finals. no doubting Leinster have flattered to deceive, but would hardly use Munster as a bench mark[/quote]

NBow your really talking through your arse, but wouldn’t expect anyhting else from a Leinster supporter though.

1044

[quote=“dancarter”]Munsters game has changed mainly due to the change in personnel they have and particularly this season due to the change in rules. If you are talking about the change in styles I would say Leinsters is far more pronounced, they have moved away from the Harlem Globetrotters stuff and now play a far more forward orientated game, maybe even more so than Munster do.

Leinster appear to have realized that the most attractive rugby wasn’t the best way of getting to their ultimate goal, winning the HEC. They are a far better, if less attractive to watch, team as a result.

Munsters success levels are obviously the IRFU benchmark for all its teams, I think that is self explanatory.

BTW, my comment re Leinster using Munster as a benchmark wasn’t derogotary. I have consistently said on here that I would love to see Leinster doing well and that if they were in a HEC final Id cheer them almost as much as I would for Munster. Surprisingly the common theme amongst my Leinster fan colleagues today was relief that Munster didn’t win![/quote]

I don’t get this apathy towards Munster being proud of where we are from. I would rate my club more important than Cork, Cork before Munster, Munster before Ireland. Maybe i’m naive, but i thought most people thought that.
Of course most of ye rate British soccer teams as yer favourite.

1045

[quote=“dancarter”]Munsters game has changed mainly due to the change in personnel they have and particularly this season due to the change in rules. If you are talking about the change in styles I would say Leinsters is far more pronounced, they have moved away from the Harlem Globetrotters stuff and now play a far more forward orientated game, maybe even more so than Munster do.

Leinster appear to have realized that the most attractive rugby wasn’t the best way of getting to their ultimate goal, winning the HEC. They are a far better, if less attractive to watch, team as a result.

Munsters success levels are obviously the IRFU benchmark for all its teams, I think that is self explanatory.

BTW, my comment re Leinster using Munster as a benchmark wasn’t derogotary. I have consistently said on here that I would love to see Leinster doing well and that if they were in a HEC final Id cheer them almost as much as I would for Munster. Surprisingly the common theme amongst my Leinster fan colleagues today was relief that Munster didn’t win![/quote]

What about Ulster dan? Who would you be up for between Ulster and Leinster in a European final? Curious is all.

1046

Very hard call larry.

On the one hand

  • I doubt Ulster fans actively dislike Munster the way Leinster fans do.
  • Most Ulster fans Iv met are very sporting and just interested in the games

On the other hand

  • Leinster have never won it before
  • More in common with the Leinster fans
  • BOD and a few more serve one

Leinster I suppose. Tight call though.
Saying that I have gotten unbelievably fucking pissed off with the Leinster fans I work with constantly harping on about Munster, Declan Kidney and their joint contribution to the downfall of irish rugby

1047

What have you that is more in common with the Leinster fans? Would have thought Ulster and Munster have historically a lot more in common as both traditional powerhouses in Irish rugby. The dominance of Ulster throughout the eighties would be similar enought to Munster’s superiority in recent years would it not?
Must say I dislike it when pundits etc talk about Munster and Leinster as if they are the be all and end all with regard to Irish rubgy. RTE for instance only show highlights of Leinster and Munster European games and never Ulster. If our national team is to develop then we need at least three strong provinces. Set up in Ulster has been a bit shambolic in recent years which has clearly hindered their success. They also don’t seem to attract same calibre of player thant other two have despite having just as big a fan base.
Agree with you that a lot of criticism of Kidney seems very petty from Leinster fans.

1048

[quote=“larryduff”]What have you that is more in common with the Leinster fans? Would have thought Ulster and Munster have historically a lot more in common as both traditional powerhouses in Irish rugby. The dominance of Ulster throughout the eighties would be similar enought to Munster’s superiority in recent years would it not?
Must say I dislike it when pundits etc talk about Munster and Leinster as if they are the be all and end all with regard to Irish rubgy. RTE for instance only show highlights of Leinster and Munster European games and never Ulster. If our national team is to develop then we need at least three strong provinces. Set up in Ulster has been a bit shambolic in recent years which has clearly hindered their success. They also don’t seem to attract same calibre of player thant other two have despite having just as big a fan base.
Agree with you that a lot of criticism of Kidney seems very petty from Leinster fans.[/quote]

I have zero issue with people from Ulster. My best mate in Dublin is an Ulster fan for example.

A few years ago, in Edinburgh, at the 6N game myself and my mates had a very nasty run in with some Ulster fans. What started as banter in the hostel ended up with one of them asking us to leave the nightclub we were in as they didnt spend all this money to end up in a nightclub with the “likes of you”. Mayhem ensued.
I don’t like the fact that they booed their team off the pitch on several occasions last year.

I think culturally we have a lot more in common also. Thats solely based on a few visits playing rugby up there and many trips up in the piss. I just think no matter how many times Iv been there Iv never felt 100% comfortable.

They definately dont attract the players, but this is down to Belfast being a far less attractive place to live than Dublin and Munsters success has drawn in the top players they have gotten. If your a merc, solely looking for the joy of sterling, then those days are over and in any case you could collect it in far better places than Ulster. London/Bath/Northampton spring to mind.

Agree completeley on the three provinces need to be strong. Ulster have been a disgrace the last few years, complete ineptitude the last few years at board level allowing all their top players fall out of contract together. Another raft of contracts due to expire at the end of this season as well. Ulster are also not helped by the fact that their players cannot benefit from the tax exemption that you get in ROI.

The media tends to ignore Ulster alright. This has a lot to do with RTE just not being of any interest to the folks up north. Why would RTE, Irish Times etc have a northern slant when no one up there is listening. Another Irish paper “the belly telly” gives them extensive coverage and barely a mention of the other provinces, ditto on BBC NI. Thats business I guess.

Ya one of the lads sitting near me calls him “the Kidney infection”. He today, managed to claim, that Kidney could never get the Irish teams fired up like Munster were last night and thats why we didnt beat the kiwis last week, this was followed up by a rant about how Kidney was ignoring all the other out halves and how if Kidney was any good hed start either Manning or Sexton next week :rolleyes:

1049

[quote=“dancarter”]I have zero issue with people from Ulster. My best mate in Dublin is an Ulster fan for example.

A few years ago, in Edinburgh, at the 6N game myself and my mates had a very nasty run in with some Ulster fans. What started as banter in the hostel ended up with one of them asking us to leave the nightclub we were in as they didnt spend all this money to end up in a nightclub with the “likes of you”. Mayhem ensued.
I don’t like the fact that they booed their team off the pitch on several occasions last year.

I think culturally we have a lot more in common also. Thats solely based on a few visits playing rugby up there and many trips up in the piss. I just think no matter how many times Iv been there Iv never felt 100% comfortable.

They definately dont attract the players, but this is down to Belfast being a far less attractive place to live than Dublin and Munsters success has drawn in the top players they have gotten. If your a merc, solely looking for the joy of sterling, then those days are over and in any case you could collect it in far better places than Ulster. London/Bath/Northampton spring to mind.

Agree completeley on the three provinces need to be strong. Ulster have been a disgrace the last few years, complete ineptitude the last few years at board level allowing all their top players fall out of contract together. Another raft of contracts due to expire at the end of this season as well. Ulster are also not helped by the fact that their players cannot benefit from the tax exemption that you get in ROI.

The media tends to ignore Ulster alright. This has a lot to do with RTE just not being of any interest to the folks up north. Why would RTE, Irish Times etc have a northern slant when no one up there is listening. Another Irish paper “the belly telly” gives them extensive coverage and barely a mention of the other provinces, ditto on BBC NI. Thats business I guess.

Ya one of the lads sitting near me calls him “the Kidney infection”. He today, managed to claim, that Kidney could never get the Irish teams fired up like Munster were last night and thats why we didnt beat the kiwis last week, this was followed up by a rant about how Kidney was ignoring all the other out halves and how if Kidney was any good hed start either Manning or Sexton next week :rolleyes:[/quote]

Personally think RTE have a responsibility to give equal treatment for all provinces who enter the European Cup. BBC NI is only a regional station so fair enough that they concentrate on Ulster but RTE should give equal treatment to all provinces as a national broadcaster.
Always thought Ulster fans were fair minded bunch and if they booed some of the inept performances that were delivered I could hardly blame them.

Was listening to newstalk last weekend where Leinster fans were widely criticising Kidney and O’Gara. Large chip on shoulders from many of them and almost playing to the local tribal crowd. Wouldn’t get this level of carry on from Ulster or Connacht fans imo.

1050

good argument there kevin, good to see your debating skills are as good as ever. at least puke and dan made efforts to debate what I said, all you can do is insult. well done:rolleyes:

1051

[quote=“larryduff”]Personally think RTE have a responsibility to give equal treatment for all provinces who enter the European Cup. BBC NI is only a regional station so fair enough that they concentrate on Ulster but RTE should give equal treatment to all provinces as a national broadcaster.
Always thought Ulster fans were fair minded bunch and if they booed some of the inept performances that were delivered I could hardly blame them.

Was listening to newstalk last weekend where Leinster fans were widely criticising Kidney and O’Gara. Large chip on shoulders from many of them and almost playing to the local tribal crowd. Wouldn’t get this level of carry on from Ulster or Connacht fans imo.[/quote]

The majority of my rugby mates would be from Ulster and they would be the first to admit to some of the biggest problems with their setup, the first being that there is an “Ulster is Great” brigade that think that they are world beaters at everything they do and don’t see the bad in anything, they are the people who boo the team off the pitch when things start to crack. They also have a “foreign is better” mentality, if there’s 2 players of equal stature up for a place the foreigner will get the jersey. There’s also the whole tax issue, because they are tied into the IRFU contract which is designed for the tax benifits down south that they don’t get up north.

RT are limated to the amount of coverage of what they can show, they don’t have rights to the Magners League or to the HEC so they have to pay for whatever they get to show, simple maths will tell them that it’s not benificial to them to show 10 minutes of Ulster highlights when most people want to see Munster and Leinster playing.

In regards to the “chip on the shoulder” issue, the biggest problem that has always damaged the Irish team is politics, there’s a rule that you have to have x amount from Munster, y amount for Leinster and a token player from Ulster.

In my opinion, for Irish rugby to have any hope on the world stage the international team will have to before the club game, a serious look has to be given to each position and then look at the foreigners in those positions. The problem areas for Irish rugby at the moment are out half, props and centres, if you look at those positions for the provincial sides they have all brought in players from outside for all those positions except for 1 team for each, that means there’s no cover cause no-one is getting game time, if RoG, BoD and Luke Fitz were all to get injured you would end up having wingers being brought into the center, a center moved to out half and god knows what on the wings.

1052

]
You are a WUM, thats all you deserve in this debate, sorry about that.

1053

Lads for all your (very worthwhile) debating there about Ulster, RTE and their shortcomings etc, ye have all totally disregarded Connaught. I for one believe the IRFU should be doing more for the 2 weaker provinces as they are now. There is 4 Provinces in Ireland.

I would (by a mile) shout for Leinster. Having lived in a provincial town and met many a supporter from outside D4 i believe there is alot more we would have in common with alot of them. I have found the real Rugby D4 crowd to be very much “Rugby” people as well, and want to talk about the game, and not the bullshit.

Like Dan i would have met both the very nice and knowledgeable Ulster fan and i have met the toerag Loyalist type. They would probably have similar experiencves of Munster people.

1054

Very good point caoimhaoin, I meant to mention Connaught. You are right, I think that they should be regarded almost as an academy that any “fringe” players get sent there, Ronan (for example) would get great benifit of playing week in week out whereas in reality he is 5th in the pecking order in the back row in Munster. I don’t think the IRFU are going to do anything with them up there, the people of Connaught just aren’t interested, they might have a march every once in a while but they won’t go and watch the team play, I would imagine that a lot of Galway people would regard themselves Munster supporters unfortunetly

1055

Your probably right there. I have met a good few Rugby mad Connaught people, but i would say GAA is more solid in Galway than most of the other big towns and cities in Ireland in comparision to Rugby, only a hunch and it might be just the people i met. I wouldn’t imagine there is massive support in the other counties for rugby either, with Mayo, Roscommon, Leitrim very strongly GAA counties, with not even a LOI team.

1056

There is also population issues in all those areas. Munster have done a fantastic job in marketing their brand, I would love to give them credit for a job well done, but I think it was a lot of luck (Wood coming home in WC year, RoG’s kick against Saracan’s, nearly men, etc. etc.)over a decade that cemented them and allowed them where they are now, they really are a marketing mans wet dream.

1057

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]]
You are a WUM, thats all you deserve in this debate, sorry about that.[/quote]

good man, sure dont bother trying to debate anyting when someone disagrees with you. its either begrudgery or a wum.

1058

Surprising from a Cork man Gman!

1059

I’ve debated alot on this issue, but most of the responses have been “B” game this, “on the piss” that, “Muster bandwagon” this, "AB’s are broke " that.
Thats not debating, thats trying to run something down in my book, if you don’t think so then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
The thing is i’m surprised, because this begrudgery has come from guys i would consider very good contributors.

I don’t go onto the LOI thread and turn that into a tit fot tat match (easy thing to do at the moment), i don’t slag off the farce that is the Irish Soccer team at the moment.

1060

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]I’ve debated alot on this issue, but most of the responses have been “B” game this, “on the piss” that, “Muster bandwagon” this, "AB’s are broke " that.
Thats not debating, thats trying to run something down in my book, if you don’t think so then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
The thing is i’m surprised, because this begrudgery has come from guys i would consider very good contributors.

I don’t go onto the LOI thread and turn that into a tit fot tat match (easy thing to do at the moment), i don’t slag off the farce that is the Irish Soccer team at the moment.[/quote]

right, so instead of actually looking at what I contributed, you are just happy to pass it off at begrudgery by me. fair enough. dont know why you see the problem with it yet puke and dan can comment and discuss what I said. and in the context of what I said. all I said was that Munster were hardly a bench mark for Leinster in choking it. Munster have choked it on a few times IMO. At least puke cam back and tired discuss the cases I mentioned, saying the semis they gave it their all, and were just beaten by a better side in one final, but accepted they choked the first one. but I’m a begrudger for pointing it out. fair enough.

if my opinion that Munster should have won a lot more when they have had the oppertunities means I’m a begrudger or a WUM, then fair enough.

Think pikeman may have hit the nail on the head tho.