If not top still challenging with a game or two to go and a clear playing style to be in place.
Champions League: Qualification for the knock outs minimum.
Think someone said it on here already but Jaysus Bill Kenwright looked disraught in that interview with Sky.
At just Ā£16.9 million David Moyes and Everton have the lowest net spend of any club ever-present in the Barclays Premier League[SIZE=3][FONT=arial]ā¢[/FONT][/SIZE] since 2002/03. Chelsea, unsurprisingly, have the highest net spend at Ā£521 million. Manchester Unitedās is Ā£170 million.
Iām rather underwhelmed with this appointment. Canāt see that Moyes has done much in his career to date to demonstrate that heās ready for this. Achieving consistent mediocrity on a limited budget with a rather primitive playing style is a very different challenge to the expectation of winning almost every game you play. Itās a huge step up.
Rocko, do you think Klopp would have had any interest if the job was offered to him? I presume they would have had to pay a hefty compensation to Dortmund too. He would definitely have been my number one choice anyway.
It is it cynical to think that Moyes was the cheap option in many ways? Out of contract so no compensation required, probably a relatively low salary compared to the likes of Mourinho and finally, wonāt insist on a huge transfer budget.
The Equalizer said last week that he didnāt think the United squad didnāt need a major āre-toolingā. Obviously the Glazers are not intending to spend big this summer. He is of course wrong, United need several players if they are to have any hope of becoming competitive in Europe next season not to mention trying to retain the EPL title. A new left back, two, probably three, midfielders/ wingers and a new striker if Rooney goes.
I can see United becoming like Arsenal, good enough to qualify for CL every year but not good enough win anything.
[quote=āhannibal, post: 770277, member: 277ā]It is it cynical to think that Moyes was the cheap option in many ways? Out of contract so no compensation required, probably a relatively low salary compared to the likes of Mourinho and finally, wonāt insist on a huge transfer budget.
The Equalizer said last week that he didnāt think the United squad didnāt need a major āre-toolingā. Obviously the Glazers are not intending to spend big this summer. He is of course wrong, United need several players if they are to have any hope of becoming competitive in Europe next season not to mention trying to retain the EPL title. A new left back, two, probably three, midfielders/ wingers and a new striker if Rooney goes.
I can see United becoming like Arsenal, good enough to qualify for CL every year but not good enough win anything.[/quote]
Thereās an awful whiff of the risk of drift about this appointment alright. I wonder if everyone at the club has been lulled into a false sense of security about the quality of the squad by Fergieās hype about them.
I donāt believe that this United squad would have won the league under any other manager. Taken as a whole itās an inferior squad to both Chelsea and City. Some exceptional performances from key players, RVP, Carrick, Rio, De Gea held it together.
Braz, whatās your opinion on the likes of Cleverly and Welbeck?
[quote=āhannibal, post: 770301, member: 277ā]I donāt believe that this United squad would have won the league under any other manager. Taken as a whole itās an inferior squad to both Chelsea and City. Some exceptional performances from key players, RVP, Carrick, Rio, De Gea held it together.
Braz, whatās your opinion on the likes of Cleverly and Welbeck?[/quote]
Iām not really sure what the point of Cleverley is meant to be. Donāt think heās good enough on the ball to play the deeper role well. Not a great ball winner. Think he might be more effective in a slightly more advanced role, perhaps the furthest forward of a three man midfield. Iāve seen him link up well with forwards there. Donāt think heās good enough though.
I like Welbeck. Heās versatile and works hard. Seems to have the discipline to do whatever job is asked of him. The bottom line is though that he wonāt make it as a striker unless his finishing improves.
[quote=ābraz83, post: 770307, member: 390ā]Iām not really sure what the point of Cleverley is meant to be. Donāt think heās good enough on the ball to play the deeper role well. Not a great ball winner. Think he might be more effective in a slightly more advanced role, perhaps the furthest forward of a three man midfield. Iāve seen him link up well with forwards there. Donāt think heās good enough though.
I like Welbeck. Heās versatile and works hard. Seems to have the discipline to do whatever job is asked of him. The bottom line is though that he wonāt make it as a striker unless his finishing improves.[/quote]
Agree on Cleverley. Donāt rate him as anything more than a squad player at best.
Welbeck does work hard but his finishing is simply not at the standard required.
As someone said to me recently would we be looking to buy either player if they were playing for another club?
Some sense been talked here by the two United fans. Juhniallio take note.
Cleverly is the most winningest player in EPL history (min 20 games)
Some other clubs have interesting players at the top if their lists too.
Fernando Morientes 
[quote=ābraz83, post: 770272, member: 390ā]Iām rather underwhelmed with this appointment. Canāt see that Moyes has done much in his career to date to demonstrate that heās ready for this. Achieving consistent mediocrity on a limited budget with a rather primitive playing style is a very different challenge to the expectation of winning almost every game you play. Itās a huge step up.
Rocko, do you think Klopp would have had any interest if the job was offered to him? I presume they would have had to pay a hefty compensation to Dortmund too. He would definitely have been my number one choice anyway.[/quote]
Obviously I donāt actually know the answer to that question but I guess itās more about speculation.
I would say no but itās hard to say why. Heās certainly an untypical football manager. Heās very much an intellectual type and Iād say heās thoroughly enjoying his project at Dortmund. His Mainz team were very successful too (though were eventually relegated) but I would think he treats the clubs as projects that he needs to stick with for a while.
Now whether the movement of players will ultimately frustrate him or not is another thing but funnily enough just before Goetze signed for Bayern there was a lot of praise for Dortmund in the German media because they had locked everyone down to a long contract other than Lewandowski. So they had seemingly staved off the Sahin, Kagawa, Lewandowski problem but Bayern just broke that apart by paying Goetzeās release clause (which was too low but that seemed to be at the insistence of the player who had his head turned by Bayern previously).
In Reus, Gundogan, Sahin (albeit still only temporarily), Hummels, Blaszā¦etc. and Piszczek they have top class players who are as good as or better than anything United have to be honest. Beyond that they have another smattering of good players (Schmelzer, Subotic, Weidenfeller etc) and a few very good prospects, particularly Leitner. If he can keep the rest of the core of that team together I donāt think heād be tempted away in the short term. But thatās entirely speculation.
I cannot stand Juhniallio but he was less than thrilled about Moyes a couple of pages back so he wasnāt myopic about the appointment.
[quote=āhannibal, post: 770313, member: 277ā]Agree on Cleverley. Donāt rate him as anything more than a squad player at best.
Welbeck does work hard but his finishing is simply not at the standard required.
As someone said to me recently would we be looking to buy either player if they were playing for another club?[/quote]
Disagree on cleverley, boys. Heās got better control and an eye for a short pass than most. He also wants to get on the ball and isnāt afraid to take it on with lads around him. Also, he looks like a composed finisher. Him and kagawa are the future.
Chalk it down farmer.
[quote=āRocko, post: 770343, member: 1ā]Obviously I donāt actually know the answer to that question but I guess itās more about speculation.
I would say no but itās hard to say why. Heās certainly an untypical football manager. Heās very much an intellectual type and Iād say heās thoroughly enjoying his project at Dortmund. His Mainz team were very successful too (though were eventually relegated) but I would think he treats the clubs as projects that he needs to stick with for a while.
Now whether the movement of players will ultimately frustrate him or not is another thing but funnily enough just before Goetze signed for Bayern there was a lot of praise for Dortmund in the German media because they had locked everyone down to a long contract other than Lewandowski. So they had seemingly staved off the Sahin, Kagawa, Lewandowski problem but Bayern just broke that apart by paying Goetzeās release clause (which was too low but that seemed to be at the insistence of the player who had his head turned by Bayern previously).
In Reus, Gundogan, Sahin (albeit still only temporarily), Hummels, Blaszā¦etc. and Piszczek they have top class players who are as good as or better than anything United have to be honest. Beyond that they have another smattering of good players (Schmelzer, Subotic, Weidenfeller etc) and a few very good prospects, particularly Leitner. If he can keep the rest of the core of that team together I donāt think heād be tempted away in the short term. But thatās entirely speculation.[/quote]
No doubt in my mind that Dortmund have a better team than United at the moment. Impossible to answer as you say, but youād wonder whether his head might have been turned by a bigger salary and budget and the challenge of working in a different country. More importantly, it seems Moyes was their first choice. Thatās what bugs me to be honest.
[quote=ābraz83, post: 770272, member: 390ā]Iām rather underwhelmed with this appointment. Canāt see that Moyes has done much in his career to date to demonstrate that heās ready for this. Achieving consistent mediocrity on a limited budget with a rather primitive playing style is a very different challenge to the expectation of winning almost every game you play. Itās a huge step up.
Rocko, do you think Klopp would have had any interest if the job was offered to him? I presume they would have had to pay a hefty compensation to Dortmund too. He would definitely have been my number one choice anyway.[/quote]
Was Klopp himself not a cheap option for Dortmund in the first place?
I think Moyesā tenure at Everton is being undervalued by a lot of people. To make them a regular top 8 team and to qualify for the Champions League with a team of absolute plodders, all on a net spend of Ā£16.9 million over 10 years is a superb achievement as far as Iām concerned.
[quote=āSidney, post: 770358, member: 183ā]Was Klopp himself not a cheap option for Dortmund in the first place?
I think Moyesā tenure at Everton is being undervalued by a lot of people. To make them a regular top 8 team and to qualify for the Champions League with a team of absolute plodders, all on a net spend of Ā£16.9 million over 10 years is a superb achievement as far as Iām concerned.[/quote]
I think he has done a really good job at Everton. I just think itās a completely different job to actually being under pressure to win things with a sizeable budget. Believe me, I seriously hope he steps up to the mark. Itās just too much of a shot in the dark for me.
[quote=āSidney, post: 770358, member: 183ā]Was Klopp himself not a cheap option for Dortmund in the first place?
I think Moyesā tenure at Everton is being undervalued by a lot of people. To make them a regular top 8 team and to qualify for the Champions League with a team of absolute plodders, all on a net spend of Ā£16.9 million over 10 years is a superb achievement as far as Iām concerned.[/quote]
A fair point Sidney. Klopp had done really well at Mainz but they had regressed by the time he left and his reputation was no longer stellar. He was more famous as a tv pundit. Dortmund were struggling at the time so itās a bit different to the United situation but thereās certainly merit in evaluating how a manager has done over a period of time within the parameters of the resources available.
The other big difference is that Mainz were successful playing really good football. So more similar to what Rodgers had done at Swansea perhaps.
Iām doing a great job of agreeing with everybody here but I agree with that too. Thereās no real need for United to go for that sort of option. There are very few managers who werenāt available to them. Ferguson was obviously a terrific appointment but the world has moved on and the EPL has moved on and the clubās ambitions have moved on. Picking a manager who has been a safe pair of hands domestically is unquestionably a conservative approachā¦