For the financial whizzs on here, what debt restructuring options are open to the state at this point?
:rolleyes:
so what?
FFS
lame
:rolleyes:
:guns:
Hmm. The US media is almost unanimously stating that the Irish government will have no option but to restructure its debt, typically with a quote from Cowen today (campaigning in Donegal) that “Ireland is in the business of paying its debts”. Are the IMF conditions likely to rule restructuring out?
Missed a bit of this thread earlier but haven’t seen Osborne’s speech in the UK mentioned yet. Osborne basically told Westminster that he was in negotiations with Ireland for “a few weeks” which is more evidence that Cowen lied but what does it matter at this stage.
According to Noonan the IMF are in favour of debt restructuring (and making the bondholders pay a price) while the ECB are traditionally opposed to it.
I’ve been a committed capitalist all my life but I’m really starting to turn. It’s an absolute outrage that the Irish people are being punished for the reckless lending of German and British banks. If the man on the street really knew what was going on there’d be war.
Found this list on the Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/nov/22/ireland which shows the holders of Irish Govt. debt. In case anyone didn’t realize Hypo is a German government owned bank.
Essentially what happened was that large European banks recklessly lent money to Irish banks who then recklessly lent it to us. The Irish banks have taken the hit for their poor lending practices and are finished, when are the large European banks going to take a hit? It’s incredible that the people that lent us all that money have yet to put their hands up and even have the fingered pointed at them. They chase extra returns by lending to Ireland and Greece, well someone should send them all back to junior cert business studies and let them see you only get a higher return when you are willing to take on extra risk.
That blog also estimates the bailout will reach 207bn – heading for a quarter of a trillion euro.
The more information we get the more likely it seems that this level of debt is just not going to be manageable and we are going to have to default.
That in turn will set the wheels in motion for a banking crisis in some of the larger European banks requiring their governments to stand behind them and before we know it we’re into a sovereign debt crisis for some of the so call superpowers.
Good post there Tinnion.
Not to interrupt the repentant capitalist tinnion, but haven’t people being saying this for fucking ages?
edit: by the way isn’t what’s happening now a perversion of capitalism?
Some rare good points Tinnion.
Cowen has to go for his gross mismanagement of our economy, his lies in recent weeks and his failure to negotiate a proper deal with the ECB but the reason the ECB are here is because there are more powerful institutions than Irish ones with a huge exposure here. German banks took on risks in Ireland that they’d never have taken on at home (assisted by our compliant regulatory regime which gave every company with a brass plate a gold star for trying). They must have found it hilarious that we guaranteed all their debts for them until they realised the guarantee was worthless because the whole country is fucked.
Completely.
The ordinary man should read Matt Coopers book, it well written in regular mans language, and is quite frightening in how these cunts operate.
Is it too late at this stage for Richard Bruton to usurp Kenny as Fine Gael leader?
I’m willing to put my hands up and admit that I udnerestimated the problems we are facing. What has changed for me is that we are now operating with the EU/IMF holding a gun to our heads, the current government is no longer operating in the national interest. We are being forced into this bailout, not for our own benefit but for the benefit of the German taxpayers.
Up to a certain point, it was in our own interest to be sorting it out but it’s just spiraling out of control. Matt Cooper has just rightly pointed out on Twitter that the EU/IMF have told Cowen that we can’t have an election until the budget is passed. F**k them.
We’re about to take on 100bn in debt, surely it’s worth considering defaulting at this stage, has anyone even looked into it? We need a government that will serve the Irish people, not the German people. Somebody has to stop this before it’s too late, this is the biggest decision in the history of the state and will have an impact on all of our lives for years to come and we’re being railroaded into it.
I rarely get angry (apart from the odd word with Cesc4 in astro), especially when it comes to political or economic matters but I’m seething at the way we are being bullied.
I also hold my hands up for attacking KIB Man a few weeks ago when he suggested we should have let Anglo go to the wall. I gave my opinion based on the information I had at hand at the time.
is there any way of getting out of the single currency now and is there any benefit in it ?
Fintan talking much sense here
Killeen will be lucky if he is not lynched here.
There’s always a way. I imagine it would be very difficult to do so in an orderly fashion though. Not sure of the benefits, presume we’d still have to pay back our debts in Euro.
The problem is that if we default we’re goof to be locked out of the markets for a long time so we’d need the backing of the IMF to do it. The EU wouldn’t let us do it anyway. At this stage all options should be considered.
This is preposterous from Killeen. Why persist with the lie?
Complete loon with orange glasses talking shite. What are you doing Kenny?
Killeen would be a neighbour of turfcutter…thick as thieves the two of them