Re: Irish Rugby Thread

1

Dreadful article from Matt Williams in the Irish Times yesterday ridiculing the selections for today’s game. Complete lack of consistency. On one hand he wants Simon Best, Mick O’Driscoll and Barry Murphy playing so we try new things. On the other hand he doesn’t agree with Fitzgerald being played and wants Gleeson instead of Ferris. I actually couldn’t make sense of it - he was arguing for giving experience to other players in advance of the world cup but in some cases he was saying that we should be going for guys we’ve seen before.

Anyway has the potential to be a decent game today. Ireland could be very disjointed with 3 new caps and plenty of inexperienced guys but they should still win handily I reckon.

2

Only Ireland can stop this dazzling New Zealand juggernaut

Thomas Castaignede
November 27, 2006 12:45 AM

Putting together a top 10 of world rugby after this year’s autumn internationals is both easy and difficult. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out the first two places but among the rest of the nations the hierarchy is less easy to establish.

There isn’t much more to say about this All Black side. They are in a class of their own, one weekend after another. Watching them play is like listening to a Mozart concerto: clarity of execution, brilliant creativity, ambition and a willingness to take the initiative. Playing them is like the Romans trying to take on Asterix and Obelix.

Their scrum is now the best in the world and the lines of running they can produce on turnover ball are simply incredible. And the world should note their reserves as the World Cup approaches. When you see Daniel Carter’s No2, Nick Evans, come on and produce a 40-metre break and a stunning pass to Luke McAlister, that is worrying indeed.

Ireland are the only nation who can live with the All Blacks in the three-quarters. They’re producing some attractive rugby, they are doing it consistently and this autumn’s scalps - Australia and South Africa - are worth having. My only worry is their scrum, which can’t match that of the All Blacks.

Their performance against Australia was worthy of New Zealand, especially given the weather, and although it was a pity not to see them meet the All Blacks it keeps us in suspense. Eddie O’Sullivan is finding new players in key positions, such as Isaac Boss at scrum-half.

I’d rank Australia third, but like the rest of the nations apart from Ireland and New Zealand they are a work in progress. They are experimenting in key areas and they badly missed George Gregan this autumn. But they showed fight in Ireland, and against Scotland and Wales there were some attractive things going on behind the scrum, which is a contrast to the monotonous stuff they were producing a year ago.

In fourth place I’m keeping faith with France, who have recovered a little after being stunned by that incredible defeat in Lyon, although they still have one knee on the ground. In a match billed as a test for the World Cup, the 47-3 margin really hurt. In the second Test they simply refused to let New Zealand play - the score was closer, but the gap between the sides was huge - and then they showed well against Argentina before resting on their laurels in the second half. Bear in mind the wins away from home against South Africa and Wales and the picture isn’t that bad.

Argentina deserve to be rated fifth after beating England at Twickenham and almost taking France yet again on Saturday. Of all the teams in the world they have recently progressed the most and they deserve a place in a major tournament.

I’d put South Africa sixth, for what they promise for the future and what they delivered on Saturday. They were a team in trouble last season, but they overcame the All Blacks in the Tri-Nations and England at Twickenham for the first time since 1997. There are new guys coming in such as Francois Steyn at full-back and Kabamba Floors in the back row and they will go home with their heads high.

Wales appear to have taken their potential to the limit, in seventh place, although on a good day they can still beat anyone apart from New Zealand. They have incredible resources in the backs, new guys such as James Hook coming through, but they are losing important games at home, which does not bode well.

England, in eighth place, are in huge difficulties but I’m sure the future is not that bleak. There have been mistakes, although I don’t think Andy Robinson should be held responsible for everything. They need key men to come back - just think how their confidence would turn if Jonny Wilkinson were to be fit in February.

Italy are worth ninth after big games against Argentina and Australia, both of which they might have won. Like Argentina they are progressing well, truly a nation on the rise, whereas Scotland were disappointing against Australia this weekend. Still, the Scots did for both England and France in the Six Nations, which backs up my original point: behind New Zealand there’s not much to separate any nation on one given day, although Ireland now have a head start on the chasing pack.

My league of nations

1 New Zealand

2 Ireland

3 Australia

4 France

5 Argentina

6 South Africa

7 Wales

8 England

9 Italy

10 Scotland

3

Would agree with Thomas’ reasoning there, though a lot could still change between now & the World Cup. France are very lucky to have a home draw, but it further underlines my point about how tough our draw is; 2, 4 and 5 in the same pool. The SA win over England on Saturday sets up their group nicely, but they’re both lucky to have each other really.

As for the article you mention in your previous post, I thought the selection was very well balanced. Great to see Eddie keep Wallace at 10 when Drico went off; the obvious option would have been to bring on O’Gara and shift Wallace to centre, but we’d have learnt nothing about Wallace from that, by bringing on Boss on the wing & moving Horgan in, O’Sullivan gave Wallace an extra 10/15 mins at outhalf.

4

Yeah agreed on those points Law. The only point I’d make about the world cup draw is we brought it on ourselves from our performance 2 tournaments ago and if you were to look at it objectively Argentina can have more cause for complaint than anyone. They upset the odds 8 years ago to earn a place as second seeds - but rather than an open draw which could have given them any one of the third seeds in their group, it was fixed so they got Ireland. The price we paid for that was that we get to play them again. Not ideal for us by any stretch of the imagination (and some of the other groups look very handy) but spare a thought for the Pumas in all of this.

I was in complete agreement with the selection strategies for these games. We started off with Neil and Rory Best as unproven guys with even fellas like Trimble who haven’t played much game time. Then we give Boss a go with O’Gara and then Wallace a shot with Stringer. For the final and easiest test we gave game time to our younger guys without making 15 changes that would have undermined the whole process.

5

Superb performance from O’Driscoll yesterday. Ireland has had relatively few truly world class sportsmen over the years but this guy is one of them. The tries weren’t spectacular but the hat trick won the game. The first showed his excellent reading of the game and his pace, though Caucau should have caught him. Great strength and awareness for the second try. Third was more of a run in but you have to be there to do it.

Those three tries and his energy around the park in attack and defence and particularly at rucks makes him a sensational player. One steal on the ground in the first half near his own line was really top drawer.

6

An excellent performance by Munster yesterday in Cardiff. Nothing spectacular but pure professionalism and they just eased themselves away from Cardiff when they got too close for comfort at the start of the second half.

O’Gara is playing sublime rugby at the moment. Didn’t have much to do as an attacking force but his place-kicking was first class in difficult conditions. The back 3 were very solid under the high ball (other than O’Leary once) - a tactic Cardiff tried too often.

Munster’s pack were missing Flannery, Horan and Foley but were still dominant and it was good to see a young Irish prop get some game-time which included one excellent steal. They’re looking good at this stage to retain the trophy.

7

Munster are an absolute disgrace. How anybody can cheer the anti-rugby they play beats me. Utterly shameful again tonight. I’d rather fail trying to play the game properly than win like they do. Disgusting. Again.

8

Just read Rocks article on the front page Chariot back on track?

Excellent article. Agree completely with it, I was also surprised at the quick turnabout in the English media. Its not that there just holding back and giving the new management a fair shot which would be fair enough. They are going on as if they are sure fire winners disregarding everything from the autumn internationals. Just because Andy Robinson is gone does not mean that all the problems are fixed. Is Jason Robinson really the big hope for the Future? He was a great player but I dont think he is the match breaker that he once was. I was surprised to see Andrew Farrell selected I havent seen much of him but I didnt think he had made that much of an impact at Saracens?

9

Forgot to mention my article on the forum but there’s going to be one every day now anyway - hopefully.

I was going to talk about Andrew Farrell but I hadn’t seen enough to say anything for certain. Like you said the last I heard was that he’d been a huge flop and everyone was slagging him off, including slating Robinson for picking him for a development squad. Now Ashton picks him and he’s a revolutionary!

10

You have got to love them for there consistency! I just cant understand how you can pick a player who doesnt appear to be delivering at club level. The likelihood is that he wont make the starting line up but he can still get all the praise for being progressive and revolutionary

11

French clubs have announced they’re boycotting the Heineken Cup next season.

BTW, what a joy Leinster are to watch. I actually made the conscious decision to watch their game the other night such is the swagger and verve they play with. And they didn’t disappoint.

Munster may have won it last year but they’ll always be Bolton to me. Do they not have any shame ‘playing’ rugby the way they do? I’d fooking love it if we beat them.

BTW (part 2), do you think it’s possible to really like a team while hating 95% of their supporters? All the idiots in Donnybrook singing ‘allez les blues’ the other night. Now they’ve decidied to try force an atmosphere to try ‘generate’ that ‘renowned Munster spirit and atmosphere’. Lads with bodhrans and trumpets and stuff and it’s all just so pathetic.

12

French clubs boycotting would be a huge blow to the tournament. Not sure it would recover from that. They’re not shy about moving games to Donostia or Geneva to earn extra revenue from the tournament but they won’t put in the commitment.

The trumpets in the Leinster crowd are the most cringeworthy thing I’ve ever seen from any supporters.

13

rock, you owe me 20 cent.

Leinster did get into the quarters finals as 8th seeds last year.

I win.

14

This is great. Trevor Brennan going into the crowd to mill some Ulster supporter. Could something like this get a life ban in rugby?

15

Any news on what was said to push Brennan over the edge?

16

Haven’t heard any specifics Bandage, other than seeing the same photo you posted. Is there video footage of the incident?

17

I’m trying to find some. Probably shouldn’t speculate about sectarianism but it wouldn’t suprise me if the words ‘taig’ or ‘fenian’ were used. Anyway, well in big Trevor.

18

Can’t find any video footage of Brennan but his uncle was just on Liveline with Joe Duffy and he said he was called a ‘fenian bastard’ and was getting abuse about his mother being a ‘whore’. Well in Big Trevor! If you’re going to pick a crowd to throw a few boxes at then an Ulster rugby crowd is as good a place as any to start.

19

Just saw a picture of the Ulster supporter’s face on the back of the Evening Herald. Big swollen jaw on him!

20

Just watching Leinster’s 2nds dismantle Llllllllllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaannnnneeeeelllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiii in the Magner’s League. They actually make rugby watchable. A 15 man adventurous, running game with great imagination, movement and ball handling. If only the other Irish provinces could play like this.