I watched liverpool play chelsea over 2 legs last year & they were very negative- then in the final they had a lot of ball but no creativity- I dont think they have any flair players or creative plauers
A poor game to use as a reference Raven. Chelsea are very negative, boring and essentially a long ball team as they showed again at the weekend against Villa when yet again they ran out of ideas so lumped a centre-half up front to knock the ball down. Jose seemingly does not learn.
In response to rock’s earlier point, you’ve stated your opinion as “facts”. I really hate that. We (collectively) have had the CL final debate in another thread. There will be no resolution or compromise but please don’t dress you opinion up as “facts”. It’s simply untrue.
I can only go on what I have seen in europe over the last few years- i suppose you could argue that they are a counter attacking team but id still say they are defensive & when they played the CL final the leopard couldnt change its spots & although trying to bring the game to Milan they didnt have the creativity or the class to break them down - im not saying Liverpool or anti football ,they are a tacitally astute team all Im saying is that Id consider Madrid Milan Inter Barca Seviile to be easier to watch
[quote]I watched liverpool play chelsea over 2 legs last year & they were very negative- then in the final they had a lot of ball but no creativity- I dont think they have any flair players or creative plauers
In response to rock’s earlier point, you’ve stated your opinion as “facts”. I really hate that. We (collectively) have had the CL final debate in another thread. There will be no resolution or compromise but please don’t dress you opinion up as “facts”. It’s simply untrue.[/quote]
Well said
I remember coming on here after the CL final saying that I thought many members of the forum would use the result as evidence that it was a victory for true football which I felt was pure bullshit
Then these same people advocated Gattuso over Gerrard - that’s when I gave up…
i think Gattuso is more of a team player & the fact that he compliments pirlo so well has led to all the recent successes for italian football. they are different players so hard to compare . in the final gattuso was excellant while gerrard had an off day
[quote]I watched liverpool play chelsea over 2 legs last year & they were very negative- then in the final they had a lot of ball but no creativity- I dont think they have any flair players or creative plauers
A poor game to use as a reference Raven. Chelsea are very negative, boring and essentially a long ball team as they showed again at the weekend against Villa when yet again they ran out of ideas so lumped a centre-half up front to knock the ball down. Jose seemingly does not learn.
In response to rock’s earlier point, you’ve stated your opinion as “facts”. I really hate that. We (collectively) have had the CL final debate in another thread. There will be no resolution or compromise but please don’t dress you opinion up as “facts”. It’s simply untrue.[/quote]
Well the facts were that they didn’t create as many chances as Milan. Those are facts, not opinions and they are adequately reflected in the scoreline.
As I say it’s not a huge criticism of Milan though because they were excellent in Europe last season. In fact I suspect that Farmer only brought them up by mistake because he hasn’t clarified his earlier comment on Liverpool accounting for them in the CL last year.
Farmer - you came on here saying Liverpool deserved the win which I vehemently disagreed with. Other posters claimed that Liverpool’s style of football was negative and displeasing. I disagreed with those posters too - saying that I think too much is made of “style of football” these days, success is the ultimate barometer.
So don’t take on the persecution complex paranioa where I’m out to criticise everything Liverpool do. I didn’t find them especially boring and to be honest if I was a Liverpool fan I couldn’t care less how aesthetically pleasing they are. I do think that they struggle to create chances however which is why they didn’t beat Milan.
Clareky/Farmer have you watched the Champions League final again since you saw it live. I ask this because I always find it hard to evaluate a match when I am emotionally involved in it. If you have watched it again I find it surprising that you think that Liverpool deserved to win.
I never said that you are out to criticise everything Liverpool do. Au contraire it has you that has the persecution complex paranoia that everyone is out to get you
You did state that Gattuso is a better player than Steven Gerrard
When I mentioned Milan before I was drawing attention to the fact that Schuster included them and Chelsea in the aesthetically pleasing category and left out Barcelona…
is that directed at me?
hard to compare the two but id say that there is reason gattusso has won everything in the game & gerrard has not so i would have to say I think he is better
It wasn’t geared towards you - it was geared towards Rock but you did say it as well
So Gattuso has won everything in the game? What does that prove? Djimi Traore won a Champions League medal, Roque Junior a World Cup medal - it means nothing
to be in central midfield for Milan & Italy and win the world cup proves you are a capable player- the way he compliments Pirlo is a joy to watch- im a little taken aback if you cant see that
It wasn’t geared towards you - it was geared towards Rock but you did say it as well
So Gattuso has won everything in the game? What does that prove? Djimi Traore won a Champions League medal, Roque Junior a World Cup medal - it means nothing
As did I. It gives me no pleasure to admit that a former Rangers player and a current fan is a better player than Gerrard in my view.
it may not give you pleasure to admit such a thing but it does show a maturity as a football fan to appreciate the ability of an ex player of your greatest rival
Clareky/Farmer have you watched the Champions League final again since you saw it live. I ask this because I always find it hard to evaluate a match when I am emotionally involved in it. If you have watched it again I find it surprising that you think that Liverpool deserved to win.
Very fair point larry/pp. I watched some highlights the week after the game but haven’t watched the full game. I’m sure I’d still think that Liverpool deserved to win the game but perhaps I wouldn’t be so adamant that they dominated.
[quote]I watched liverpool play chelsea over 2 legs last year & they were very negative- then in the final they had a lot of ball but no creativity- I dont think they have any flair players or creative plauers
A poor game to use as a reference Raven. Chelsea are very negative, boring and essentially a long ball team as they showed again at the weekend against Villa when yet again they ran out of ideas so lumped a centre-half up front to knock the ball down. Jose seemingly does not learn.
In response to rock’s earlier point, you’ve stated your opinion as “facts”. I really hate that. We (collectively) have had the CL final debate in another thread. There will be no resolution or compromise but please don’t dress you opinion up as “facts”. It’s simply untrue.[/quote]
Well the facts were that they didn’t create as many chances as Milan. Those are facts, not opinions and they are adequately reflected in the scoreline.
[/quote]
Why can’t I use that phrase? It would really suit me in this instance.
To be honest Clarkey Liverpool didn’t create any chances as good as Inzaghi’s or the wrongly disallowed one on one that would have ended the game long before they finished it off.
As the wikipedia stats erroneously suggest, but as the UEFA stats confirm, Liverpool had 10 shots with 6 wide. Milan had 4 shots with 1 wide. What that says to me is that Liverpool couldn’t break Milan down so they resorted to trying speculative efforts. Milan on the other hand were able to pass it more accurately and created more clearcut opportunities as evidenced by their ratio of shots on target.
It was always likely that as the game went on and Liverpool found themselves behind that they’d have more attempts on goal. That doesn’t translate into creating chances though.
I think Milan thoroughly deserved to win the final last year and posted at length about it at the time so I’m not going over all that again.
I think Gattuso is a better player than Gerrard. Farmer, you often use the examples of Traore and Roque Junior when alluding to the fact that honours won don’t always correspond to the quality of a given player. However, just because these two are players of questionable quality it doesn’t follow automatically follow that Gattuso should be shunted in there with them. Gattuso has been a key component of the Milan and Italy teams for the last number of years and continues to be so and is a player of exceptional quality. Other people might think Gerrard is a superior player but that’s a matter of personal opinion. To infer that Gattuso is a bad player and of similar quality to Traore is just silly.
I also found Liverpool to be very turgid and difficult to watch over the last few years although I believe Benitez is in the process of rectifying that having seen them play twice this season and following the signings of the likes of Torres and Babel - two players with flair, creativity, pace and finishing power.
I think Raven was probably stirring a little with the topic title but he’s surely entitled to hold his view about Liverpool’s style of football, much as the Liverpool supporters take the opposite viewpoint.
And I totally reject Flano’s comment about people agreeing / disagreeing with Raven. I don’t agree with Farmer and Clarkey but it doesn’t follow that I think they’re idiots just because they hold the opposite view to Raven. I’ve never seen Raven insult people for taking a different view than him either - he may wind them up with his posts but people do that to each other on forums all the time.
And I totally reject Flano’s comment about people agreeing / disagreeing with Raven. I don’t agree with Farmer and Clarkey but it doesn’t follow that I think they’re idiots just because they hold the opposite view to Raven. I’ve never seen Raven insult people for taking a different view than him either - he may wind them up with his posts but people do that to each other on forums all the time.
Post edited by: Bandage, at: 2007/09/05 18:35
Sorry I must clarify what I said, it is a bit vague now that I read back on it.
I meant that Raven often spouts opinions of football managers, pundits etc that he agrees with an then tries to solidify his opinion by saying, this guy agrees with me so I must be right etc. And I’m pretty sure if I found a manager/pundit with a different view he would argue that the opinion of his guy has more weight for whatever reason he says.
And another thing, this thread is a complete re-hash and is quite boring. Its all been said before. Lets talk about the 2005 final instead.