Iâm calling Goram a bigot because of his actions in relation to the Peace Process wtb. I wouldnât call all Rangers fans bigots but clear a higher percentage are. Rangers had a sectarian policy up until recently whereas Celtic have always welcomed players and fans from all religious backgrounds. Two side of same coin is pretty lazy argument that doesnât stand up at all. If Goram had been playing for any club and had acted way he did I would call him a bigot. Fact he played for Rangers was hardly a coincidence mind.
[quote=âfarmerinthecityâ]Much of Celticâs 1967 team was made up of Protestants. Jock Stein was a Protestant, Kenny Daglish was a Protestant.
Mo Johnson was Rangersâ first Catholic player in late 80s/early 90s and there was uproar.[/quote]
Ah itâs all the same. Two clubs clinging to a bigotted, outdated nationalism as their identity and crying foul for the other side doing the same.
Try and be a bit more lazy with your next comment :rolleyes:
That didnât really address my point now did it?
No its not. Celtic fans expressing their Irishness isnât bigotted no matter what you might like to think.
Bit rich to get a lecture from a Liverpool fan about bigotry given your history anyway.
Are you trying to tell me that Celtic are an open-minded, all inclusive club? Thereâs no doubt they were more open minded towards playerâs backgrounds a lot sooner, but to suggest that thereâs some fundamental difference in the secatarian attitudes of the rival supporters is simply wrong. How different to the Rangerâs bigots were the boys who daubed IRA and Celtic slogans all over Goramâs pub in green pain?
But Celtic arenât Irish - How can they express their Irishness?
Irish diaspora
You are making a bit of a jump there in what I am saying. You called the Celtic club bigotted when they are clearly not given the fact that they have had players from the other side, religion wise, playing for them for years.
[quote=âlarryduffâ]No its not. Celtic fans expressing their Irishness isnât bigotted no matter what you might like to think.
Bit rich to get a lecture from a Liverpool fan about bigotry given your history anyway.[/quote]
Nationalist ideology means fuck all to me either way.
But Celticâs Irishness has gotten itself wound up in the IRAâs Irishness and thereâs more than enough songs and chants for us to accept that. Nobodyâs saying all Celtic and Rangerâs fans are like that but itâs there in godd measure in both clubs. Yet Celtic fans are always crying about Rangerâs bigotry as if they are completely innocent. Thatâs simply not the case.
The truth of the matter is that Hibs should be the main âIrish Diasporaâ club as they were there 1st and Celtic are only a copy of Hibs. In fact, in Celticâs first ever game they had to borrow a pile of players to field a team against Rangers. They then went on to poach these Hibs players which soured the relationship between both clubs.
So it is the supporters that have sectarian attitudes and not the club? Make up your mind please. Celtic have the odd bigot supporting them just like most clubs. A large percentage of Celtic fans arenât bigots but many Rangers fans clearly are. Only need to look at behaviour of fans when in Europe to see this.
For the record I would happilly urinate against Andy Goramâs pub.
[quote=âWatch The Breakâ]Nationalist ideology means fuck all to me either way.
But Celticâs Irishness has gotten itself wound up in the IRAâs Irishness and thereâs more than enough songs and chants for us to accept that. Nobodyâs saying all Celtic and Rangerâs fans are like that but itâs there in godd measure in both clubs. Yet Celtic fans are always crying about Rangerâs bigotry as if they are completely innocent. Thatâs simply not the case.[/quote]
But youâre missing the point here.
Sure they are some Celtic fans who are sectarian bigots but the Rangers club were founded on bigotry, and have taken it through right up to modern times.
Celtic on the other hand was always all inclusive. To label the club, and all supporters, as being equivalent to Rangers in terms of bigottry is completely incorrect.
I donât know how much that matters. Both cities have an Irish heritage. What gets me is how they claim parading their âIrish identityâ and waving tricolours and singing Irish songs is somehow less inflammatory than the Rangers carry on.
Hibs wanted Celtic kicked out of the league in 1950âs for flying tri-colour above stadium. Their links to Ireland were short lived.
Ah itâs been a whileâŚ
Indeed, it could be argued that it is more inflammatory as at least Rangers are waving the flag of their own Country, in their own Country. They have a right to do this. Celtic have no such right and in my opinion are only indulging in provocation whern doing so.
[quote=âlarryduffâ]So it is the supporters that have sectarian attitudes and not the club? Make up your mind please. Celtic have the odd bigot supporting them just like most clubs. A large percentage of Celtic fans arenât bigots but many Rangers fans clearly are. Only need to look at behaviour of fans when in Europe to see this.
For the record I would happilly urinate against Andy Goramâs pub.[/quote]
How do you define the club? Are the supporters not part of Celtic Football Club. Thattâll be news to most of them. Guessing at the percentages does nothing to wipe away the nationalist imagery and culture that exists at Celtic. That this is somehow less offensive to Scottish people than a club that represents a different culture is ridiculous. Both clubs are part of the problem and Celticâs Irish nationalism will always be just as provocative as Rangerâs British nationalism.
Well there is a huge difference. Celtic fans sing about Irish heritage and history as they are of Irish descent themselves or born in Ireland. Rangers fans sing about fenian blood, boo black players and any Irish players.
Educate yourself a bit wtb before making these sweeping statements. You might not care about Irish history or Irish nationalism but some people do and the fact they were born outside of this country shouldnât prevent them from expressing it.