[quote=âWatch The Breakâ]Thatâs exactly the point! There you have just defined a nationalist identity in purely negative terms, which is EXACTLY how any nationalist identity will appear to those who are not part of it.
How do you think Irish nationalism comes across to Scottich people, or people who identify themselves as British? Negatively. And when they sing songs about the IRA it only reinforces it. Celticâs constant nationalist outlook is equally as offensive to them as British nationalism is to you. Because thatâs what nationalism does, itâs primary purpose is to band people together in hatred of something else and throughout Irish history that thing has been Britain.[/quote]
But it is purely negative - you have come on here youself bemoaning British imperialism.
But once again, this is not the issue. Celtic is not bigotted. It has always allowed players from all divides to play for them whereas Rangers have had that in built bigotry that conincides with the cause for the start of the Troubles in the North.
The fact that some Celtic âsupportersâ would wish to carry out the same vile acts as what Rangers was built on is regrettable I must say.
[quote=âWatch The Breakâ]Thatâs exactly the point! There you have just defined a nationalist identity in purely negative terms, which is EXACTLY how any nationalist identity will appear to those who are not part of it.
How do you think Irish nationalism comes across to Scottich people, or people who identify themselves as British? Negatively. And when they sing songs about the IRA it only reinforces it. Celticâs constant nationalist outlook is equally as offensive to them as British nationalism is to you. Because thatâs what nationalism does, itâs primary purpose is to band people together in hatred of something else and throughout Irish history that thing has been Britain.[/quote]
That all makes perfect sense. However, you are Irish and even if you can see both sides of the story surely youâd have more sympathy for your own side.
Celtic fans seem to pride themselves on being anti-racist and more inclusive as well as there Irish nationalism though.
They come down firmly on the pro Palestine side of that debate which I thought you agreed with yourself.
They also ddonât seem to go round wrecking city centres like Rangers fans have done many times, and in fact get praise for their friendly behaviour.
Surely you can admit all these things, even if you do have a valid initial point?
[quote=âgolaâ]Have been meaning to ask you about this but would a lot of Ulster rugby fans not engage in rangersesque behaviour larry?
I met a bunch of them singing billy boys etc over in australia one time and I would have thought rugby in Ulster would have just as much of a bigotted reputation, in an albeit more middle class so less in your face way, as Rangers.[/quote]
Absolutely not no. Ulster rugby doesnât have that element to it at all. Even looking at flags at games now and they are nearly all the yellow and red provincial flags as oppossed to northern irish unionist flag. Ulster players just as keen to represent Ireland as players from other provinces. You may have met odd fool on holiday but they are in no way representative of great majority of fans
Keanes bigotry towards Goram is absolutely fine and is even to be applauded because Goram is a bigot himself and had played for a bigotted club previously?
Aye spot on there, he turned his back on his own doing that.
[quote=âfarmerinthecityâ]Good man TT.
You are actually attempting a wind up and have got it completely arseways.
Celtic wore poppies last season on their shirts which is something a lot of Celtic supporters were (rightly) diappointed over.[/quote]
Disappointing to see your attitude here farmer, theyâre a British Club, British men died for their country in WW1 and WW2, they honoured them by wearing the poppy. Tis only right surely?
Keanes bigotry towards Goram is absolutely fine and is even to be applauded because Goram is a bigot himself and had played for a bigotted club previously?[/quote]
No just because he is a proven bigot against Keaneâs own people himself. Which is surely fair enough, Royâs not Jesus Christ.
Nothing to do with club. Keane has never showed any attitude to any other ex Rangers people.
Keanes bigotry towards Goram is absolutely fine and is even to be applauded because Goram is a bigot himself and had played for a bigotted club previously?[/quote]
Would not call Keane a bigot in that instance.
He just disliked a bigot immensely and showed it - nothing wrong with that.
[quote=âmyboyblueâ]
Disappointing to see your attitude here farmer, theyâre a British Club, British men died for their country in WW1 and WW2, they honoured them by wearing the poppy. Tis only right surely?[/quote]
Itâs for all British soldiers who fought abroad, including those that butchered non violent protestors on Bloody Sunday, never mind the Black and Tans etc.
I understand that, but those soldiers were fighting for hrm the queen, and Celtic is a Club in hrmâs homeland. Its only right they don the poppy to honour their fallen, much and all as it may disappoint those in foreign countryâs to Celticâs, such as the Republic of Ireland.
[quote=âfarmerinthecityâ]But it is purely negative - you have come on here youself bemoaning British imperialism.
But once again, this is not the issue. Celtic is not bigotted. It has always allowed players from all divides to play for them whereas Rangers have had that in built bigotry that conincides with the cause for the start of the Troubles in the North.
The fact that some Celtic âsupportersâ would wish to carry out the same vile acts as what Rangers was built on is regrettable I must say.[/quote]
Thatâs exactly right, I despise imperialism and any support I have for ârepublicanâ activities comes from anti-imperialism rather than nationalism. But lets not get into personal beliefs. British Imperialism is not British nationalism, it just seems that way to us. If the identity was purely negative they wouldnât endorse it, so there are obviously positive elements of being British in that identity that people take pride in. But Celtic fans regard Rangers as cunts because they only see that negativity in that identity.
Similarly, Rangers fans see glorification of people who blow up pensioners and shoppers. Of course itâs not true, but thatâs how it comes across to them. Thatâs what nationalism does, and Celticâs flaunting of their Irish nationalism is just as inflammatory and offensive as Rangerâs flaunting of their British nationality.
Anyone who would know anything about the Irish diaspora background of Celtic could see that supporters would have a problem with the club honouring those who carried out Bloody Sunday.
[quote=âlarryduffâ]Well there is a huge difference. Celtic fans sing about Irish heritage and history as they are of Irish descent themselves or born in Ireland. Rangers fans sing about fenian blood, boo black players and any Irish players.
Educate yourself a bit wtb before making these sweeping statements. You might not care about Irish history or Irish nationalism but some people do and the fact they were born outside of this country shouldnât prevent them from expressing it.[/quote]
Glasgow Celticâs chants about hoping Nacho Novo gets murdered by the IRA is the worst.
[quote=âgolaâ]No just because he is a proven bigot against Keaneâs own people himself. Which is surely fair enough, Royâs not Jesus Christ.
Nothing to do with club. Keane has never showed any attitude to any other ex Rangers people.[/quote]
[quote=âfarmerinthecityâ]Would not call Keane a bigot in that instance.
He just disliked a bigot immensely and showed it - nothing wrong with that.[/quote]
a lot of assumptions here boys, how do ye know keane didnât just dislike him for being an staunch proddy orangeman?
At the end of the day, Celtic is a Glasgow based Scottish Club in Great Britain. It had to do the right thing, which was row in behind its Govt and its soldiers. In the end, they did the right thing.
I love comments like âflaunting their Irish nationalism!â - straight out of the Daily Mail that verb.
The huns are a despicable bunch and their links with far-right groups (including Benâs beloved BNP) makes them a bunch of contemptible cunts in my eyes. And thatâs enough to justify hatred.
Doubt the Keane thing happened anyway, or doubt it was important. Goram has a book to sell, he realises people only want to read about the EPL these days so heâs hyping up his move to Manchester, despite its irrelevance in his career.
Sporting a symbol where the money raised goes towards suppporting imperial war aims is not âthe right thingâ. Poppy is an ironic symbol, considering opium poppy cultivation has increased while the British and Americans have been in Afghanistan. If people want to wear a poppy they should wear one of these: http://www.ppu.org.uk/poppy/
I love comments like âflaunting their Irish nationalism!â - straight out of the Daily Mail that verb.
The huns are a despicable bunch and their links with far-right groups (including Benâs beloved BNP) makes them a bunch of contemptible cunts in my eyes. And thatâs enough to justify hatred.
[/quote]
Very simplistic by your standards. That kind of remark was dismissed as lazy three pages ago. Get with it.