Rugby World Cup - Pool D Preview

I’m not saying that there is an agenda - I’m just saying that people always speculated that there was and it was funny how the selections turned out this week.

I would have been less surprised if Horgan was dropped for Trimble because Horgan looked in poor form against Georgia. Hickie on the other hand was an important kicker for us and looked sharp against Bayonne at least. Trimble was very disappointing against Italy and didn’t improve on it against Namibia. I just don’t think he’s playing well enough at the moment, and more importantly, he doesn’t look like a brilliant winger much of the time. It’s not his position.

Best isn’t playing because he doesn’t do the unseen work apparently. Hard to know without analysing his game on its own and not paying attention to anything else. I’d have started him though.

therock67 wrote:

I’m not saying that there is an agenda - I’m just saying that people always speculated that there was and it was funny how the selections turned out this week.

I would have been less surprised if Horgan was dropped for Trimble because Horgan looked in poor form against Georgia. Hickie on the other hand was an important kicker for us and looked sharp against Bayonne at least. Trimble was very disappointing against Italy and didn’t improve on it against Namibia. I just don’t think he’s playing well enough at the moment, and more importantly, he doesn’t look like a brilliant winger much of the time. It’s not his position.

Best isn’t playing because he doesn’t do the unseen work apparently. Hard to know without analysing his game on its own and not paying attention to anything else. I’d have started him though.

Ah come on. Who has always speculated that there was an agenda? Do you think there is an agenda? If you picked your first choice fifteen for tomorrow’s match would there have been an Ulster player? My team would have contained two. There would have been none of this speculation had Best started ahead of Easterby which he should have imo. Perhaps that is because Easterby doesn’t play for Munster or Leinster and also Best is the better player imo. I think there would have been far more clamour for Best’s selection if he was a Munster player for example. Hickie tick none of t he penalties for us against Georgia so his kicking doesn’t seemed to be that highly valued. I think he should have started but to use this as evidence as to there being some sort of agenda is pure folly.

I didn’t say there was an agenda - I just said it just fuelled the conspiracy theorists. If you want me to name names then Neil Francis is one. George Hook is another obviously. I don’t like Hook and Francis can be xeonophobic and smarmy but in fairness to the two of them they’re the most likely pundits to speak their mind on the issue. I can’t see Tony Ward for example ever speculating about it.

Personally, I don’t think there is an agenda.

My starting XV would have had one Ulster player - Neil Best.

I’d have

Dempsey
Horgan
O’Driscoll
D’Arcy
Hickie
O’Gara
Reddan

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O’Callaghan
O’Connell
N Best
Wallace
Leamy

Replacements:
S Best
Sheahan
O’Kelly
Quinlan
Stringer
Wallace
Murphy

I think you’re right about there being a bigger clamour for Best’s inclusion if he was a Munsterman - like the mini campaign around Wallace when he wasn’t playing. Doesn’t mean he should be playing though and if I accept that there’s no hidden agenda in Trimble starting then it’s also true that Best isn’t starting for a good reason, not because he’s not from Munster. Agreed on Hickie’s kicking not being valued. Should have been though.

Anyone got a translated copy of the L’Equipe O’Gara expose that has so enraged the Irish camp?

Ireland v France preview from Setanta.

Discussion between Matt Williams, Neil Francis and Liam Toland before Wales - Japan game.

http://www.google.com/videoplay?docid=6970239047954190305

Brian O’Driscoll video in anticipation of the match tomorrow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26ElDSoOPas

Goddamit, despite my best intentions I’m starting to veer towards irrational optimism again. I hate it when this happens.

My head says there’s no logical reason to think we’re going to turn it around now, but I’m starting to convince myself that all the adversity could work to our advantage.

I still think it’s all about the first twenty minutes though. France could either blow us away, or if we stay with them, they could get nervous. Having said that, Matt Williams made a good point tonight when the panel were discussing Michalak and Chabal’s dependability, when he asked would you take them on the Irish team. Based on how they’ve played so far in the tournament, I’d have to take Michalak over O’Gara and probably Chabal over O’Callaghan too.

Fair play to Neil Francis for calling it on O’Connell. He hasn’t played well and the pack have been disastrous. He does have great games but he’s no Martin Johnson.

Mate living in Brussels informs me that Ireland are 14/1 over there, which is astonishing.

Fats wrote:

Goddamit, despite my best intentions I’m starting to veer towards irrational optimism again. I hate it when this happens.

My head says there’s no logical reason to think we’re going to turn it around now, but I’m starting to convince myself that all the adversity could work to our advantage.

I still think it’s all about the first twenty minutes though. France could either blow us away, or if we stay with them, they could get nervous. Having said that, Matt Williams made a good point tonight when the panel were discussing Michalak and Chabal’s dependability, when he asked would you take them on the Irish team. Based on how they’ve played so far in the tournament, I’d have to take Michalak over O’Gara and probably Chabal over O’Callaghan too.

Fair play to Neil Francis for calling it on O’Connell. He hasn’t played well and the pack have been disastrous. He does have great games but he’s no Martin Johnson.

Mate living in Brussels informs me that Ireland are 14/1 over there, which is astonishing.

Genuinely not sure if I’d take either Michalak or Chabal (for the starting XV, Michalak would be on the bench at least obviously). I think in a tight game with our backs against the wall and on poor form we need the structured play of O’Gara and we have the flair outside him anyway. France have gone the other way and gone for steady centres but a flair out-half which I don’t think works as well.

Chabal I simply don’t rate and never have. Even in the clips they showed of him tonight the amount of times he lost the ball against Argentina in his cameo was unreal. He did the same in Croke Park when he came on and nearly cost them the game with a couple of important turnovers.

Yeah but O’Gara’s been absolutely dreadful so far. Can’t remember him ever playing as bad before.

Worst thing is, he could get even worse and his place still wouldnt be under threat.

Take your point on Chabal being a bit of a luxury, even though O’Callaghan has also been poor. You can’t afford to play a forward just for one or two crowd-pleasing moments per match. Interested to watch his overall work-rate tomorrow vs Donners tomorrow so.

Can’t forgive that feckin’ Triton ad though. It unnerves me.

Very disappointing last night.

Game started brightly enough for Ireland. We had a tactical kicking battle with them in the first 5 minutes and were at least their measure on that front. O’Gara wasn’t kicking brilliantly, but he was outdone on that score by Michalak who had some terrible efforts.

For the rest of the first half the game was fairly even. We seemed to have mor quality ball but we weren’t able to do an awful lot with it. We had a few bad handling errors but I thought they were up very quick a few times with no punishment from the referee. Then we conceded some very soft penalties - soft by us and harsh by the ref. The one against Leamy for stealing the ball at the ruck was just a very poor decision. Leamy was on his feet the whole time until the whistle went and the only infringement was their guy for holding on. When they nearly scored in the corner he brought them back for a penalty under the posts, even though the offside infringement was 5 metres from the touchline on the far side. He gave one against O’Callaghan for playing the ball on the deck even though he didn’t go near the ball. The worst decision of all was around the 30 minute mark. Poitrenaud I think had the ball in his own 22 under pressure and attempted a clearing kick which he sliced appallingly. It went straight into an Irishman and Chabal near the near touchline about 40 yards out and the ball hit Chabal who got in the way of our attempts to catch it, then Chabal flicks it back and they picked up and launched a counter attack which they nearly scored from, but won a penalty anyway. Blatantly offside but Chris White wasn’t interested.

Just to finish off on the referee here I thought that was one of the worst efforts I’ve seen in a long time. It wasn’t the difference between us winning and losing the game in the end but it was a huge factor in us being 9 points down at half time and then losing O’Connell in the second half was a joke. From a lineout they caught in and when they start driving O’Connell is penalised for coming in at the side even though he hadn’t moved from the lineout at all and was merely making his initial contact with his marker. It was possibly a bit lazy from O’Connell in not getting round to the back but it was a harsh penalty and a frankly ridiculous decision to give him a yellow card. There was plenty more petty decisions - the Ibanez “stamp”, the one on Wallace (though that was a bit more silly, but neither had any stamping motion), plenty of offside offences on mauls, giving out to Reddan for hitting their guy with the ball, speaking to Ireland twice for bad language. He was delighted to be on tv and thought he was ever so clever at spotting truck and trailer and accidental offsides when missing far more blatant stuff.

Anyway back to why we lost the game and while we didn’t have a great start to the second half we did manage a couple of periods of pressure in their 22. The best one culminated in Trimble’s decision to force a pass out of the tackle to Horan which was a poor call. We were building pressure and had made plenty of yards from recycling the ball at rucks. Horan wasn’t going to score from Trimble’s pass - in fact he was going to do well to stay in play so it was a pointless risk.

Their first try was the killer and Trimble was hugely to blame. Seeing Clerc coming in off the wing Trimble moved up and let Easterby know he had to cover the scrum half and back row if they went blind. And then Trimble switched off. When the ball is switched to Michalak you can see O’Gara and Trimble moving up on him but Clerc has moved back towards the wing at this stage and Trimble isn’t paying attention. It was a nice kick from Michalak but that was a horrible defensive error to leave so much space unguarded. Two big mistakes were:

  1. following Clerc to a point and then not matching his run back out to the wing.
  2. Trimble needed to be sweeping for the grubber anyway and shouldn’t have been pressing with O’Gara. If he’s leaving that post then Easterby can’t cover the kick obviously because he’s bound to the scrum so unless Reddan is leaving the scrum to cover kicks it’s Trimble’s responsibility.

After that it was a disaster. O’Connell’s sin binning didn’t help at all but we were far too long in introducing O’Kelly and Best. The heads went down and they played is off the park for the last 20 and we were lucky they didn’t run in another few tries. Trimble didn’t cover himself in glory for the second try either. Dempsey could probably have done better but he needed to try and play the ball because Trimble wasn’t going to.

PLAYER RATINGS:

Dempsey - 6.5 not brilliant on the second try but other than that he was good under plenty of kicks and he kicked solidly himself.
Horgan - 5.5 took the first kick off superbly and then went a bit quiet. Needs to be used more as a battering ram so we can save the centres for cuts at their misaligned defence.* Cost us 3 points just before half time with a shocking effort at fielding a kick.
O’Driscoll - 6 He got no ball and didn’t get many chances to show his strength as an attacking force which is hugely disappointing and a reflection on a poor gameplan. Put in one super hit in the second half on Poitrenaud.
D’Arcy - 6 stole one ball at ruck time but like O’Driscoll he got precious little attacking ball to work off. Defended well enough.
Trimble - 3 not a winger. Did ok first half under kicks and returned a few relatively decent garryowens but that’s his only kicking strategy it seems. Badly caught out for the first try and just isn’t up to playing as an international wing.
O’Gara - 5 not happening for him. Sloppy kicking from hand early on and missed a straightforward 3 points. Kicked a decent drop goal but that was the limit of our attacking ambitions. The backline doesn’t look penetrative and the outside backs don’t appear to be on the same wavelength as their outhalf.
Reddan - 5.5 got some horrible ball from lineouts which he coped reasonably well with. Takes a couple of steps at the base of rucks which might give him the chance of a break but it pretty much ruins everyone else’s chances of doing so.
Horan - 6 held up well in the scrum until the last 20 minutes. Bad handling in the first half when we’d a chance of a score
Flannery - 6 also solid in the scrum and was prominent around the park early on. Throwing in wasn’t great but it wasn’t all his fault at lineout time. Won us a vital penalty in the first half by stealing the ball on our own line from their driving maul.
Hayes - 6.5 really solid in the scrums. Important part of our maul defence as well.
O’Callaghan - 4.5 Didn’t win much of his own ball at lineouts and didn’t carry the ball much at all. What ball he did win was sloppily presented backwards
O’Connell - 6 put in some good tackles in the first half especially and won our best lineout ball. Also put in a big shift at mauls defensively.
Easterby - 5 supposed to be a lineout specialist but his control of the ball out of touch was shocking with taps all over the place. Like everyone else up front he did well in the first half but faded
Wallace - 5.5 doesn’t look fit to be honest. Needless concession of a penalty but it was harsh and a better referee might have had a word with Chabal’s blatant attempts to bring down our maul first. All his defence was done in tight which meant he didn’t get a chance to hound Michalak who had looked flaky early on
Leamy - 5.5 did his part in defence in the first half as well as anyone but wasn’t dynamic with the ball in hand.

SUBS were brought on too late to have any impact.

*(Not sure if this point was being made last night because I missed the start of a point by Williams but at the moment too much ball goes to D’Arcy and BOD first up to have a go at their defence which is obviously well structured from first phase. When it’s recycled we usually have D’Arcy for example on the ground and BOD rucking which they both do superbly. So when it comes back to O’Gara our next strike runner is Horgan or Trimble or someone. We’ve much better chances of breaking the gainline or doing something off the cuff on the second phase and our better runners - our centres - should be retained for that purpose. The likes of Horgan and Trimble are supposed to be strong men and should be relied on for crash ball off the first phase when necessary).

Disappointing night. We were limited in our attacking options and simply didn’t deserve to win. Our pack stood up well in the scrum and the French only put us unr pressure on one or two occassions. Our lineout was simply awful. Flannery doesn’t look the player he was a year ago and he was at fault for many of the French wins on our throw. Time and again he threw it short of our jumpers. He wasn’t helped by the poor handling ofumpers though. O’Connell had a decent game and Hayes was excellent I thought. The backs lived off scraps all night. The ball we did get wasn’t helped by Redden’s service which was very poor. On crucial occassions when we did get clean ball his passes were either behind O’Gara or above O’Gara. He nearly always took a couple of steps before passing and I would have replaced him with 60 minutes yesterday. O’Gara had yet another poor game and his kicking was aimless. He wasn’t helped by Redden though and in fairness he created some lovely interchanging with forwards with good passes. Trimlble had a stinker and his supposed strenghts in defence were not there. He will be a better player in four years but shouldn’t feature again in RWC 2007. Darcy and O’Discroll did well off scraps and grew into the game. Horgan wasn’t as effective as he needs to be and did very poor at the en od of the first half. Dempsey was excellent last night and dealt with everything that was thrown at him. All of our players weren’t helped by Chris White who bottled it big time last night. I wasn’t happy when I saw he would be refereeing it. Time and again he penalised us wrongly or didn’t penalise thiem. He reminds me of a teacher who can’t control his class. That time he spoke to Redden when he threw the ball at the slow French defender summed his attitude up last night.
Changes I would make for Argentina would include the following:
Frankie Sheehan for Flannery
Ferris for Leamy who has been onimonous
Stringer for Redden (quick service will be crucial agains Argentina)
Hickie for Trimble
Murphy for Horgan
I’d be tempted to start Best as he brings a raw aggression which we sometimes lack. Thought Easterby did very well last night though and got around the park well.

Just a quick point here - I was way too harsh on Easterby. Watching the game again at the moment and he was our best forward in the first half. Changing him to a 6.

Also here’s the video of the offside decision that I referred to in my first post on the match. How White doesn’t give us a penalty here I’ll never know and that was a crucial stage of the match:

http://www.google.com/videoplay?docid=2860101191380355928

I don’t know much about rugby but I thought Reddan was one of the few positives from the game.

There was no craft or invention in attack. Nobody ran any decent lines or posed the French any serious questions in attack. As Eric Miller said on Newstalk we simply set out to truck it up the middle with no ambition.

There was even an occasion about 10/15 minutes in when we had a lineout 15 metres out. It was one of the few occasions we got clean ball of the top and O’Gara lumped up a garryowen. For fook sake get it out to D’Arcy and O’Driscoll instead of playing an ultra-conservative kick and chase game.

That squad should be utterly ashamed of themselves and they should come home now before the Argentina game as they’ve embarrassed the country enough.

therock67 wrote:

Just a quick point here - I was way too harsh on Easterby. Watching the game again at the moment and he was our best forward in the first half. Changing him to a 6.

Yeah you were. He had a very good forty although you were right about his poor handliog. Unusual for him though I think. Your point about Redden taking a step (and your being kind with the singular) is crucial though and it effects everybody else hugely.

Getting tries is obviously crucial against Argentina. All the pressure is off because the result is largely irrelevant - either we blow them away or we’re out. Our team selection must reflect our need to pile on points so I’d go for:

Horan
Flannery (Sheahan’s throwing is worse Larry)
Hayes
O Kelly
O Connell
Best
Wallace
Leamy

Stringer
O Gara

Hickie
D’Arcy
O Driscoll
Murphy
Dempsey

Bench:
S Best
Sheahan
Quinlan
Ferris
Reddan
Wallace
Horgan

Don’t see him doing that though - it’s tantamount to conceding he was wrong about Hickie (which he was) and Stringer (debatable).

Think O’Sullivan conceded he was wrong in the first place by starting Reddan last night after having hardly played him at all over the last couple of years. His comments about O’Gara last night all concentrated on the quality of ball he was getting and how it affected his game. This was down to both the pack and Reddan. In the precious few times when Reddan got good ball he took too much out of it before giving it to O’Gara. This delay of seconds before getting the ball is crucial. I would definitely bring Hickie back in. Perhaps Murphy should come in at full back given his attacking options and use Horgan as the battering ram. Would bring in Ferris with Best and Wallace as the back row. Leamy has been poor so far and putting Best in with Ferris would enable an element of understanding in the back row with the Ulster contingent.

Some good analysis on Setanta this morning of the first Clerc try uploaded below - Emmet Byrne and Reggie Corrigan discussing Trimble’s positioning. Corrigan doesn’t seem to understand that Clerc had come over first before reverting to the wing but Emmet Byrne’s analysis is spot on. They’re improving their coverage every day are Setanta. Interview with Eddie O’Sullivan at 9:45 this evening which could be interesting.

http://www.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8184783856784586133

I completely disagree with the above Reddan comments. Of course he had to take a few steps and try to make some breaks around the fringes himself seeing as our game plan seemed to be having either back row or loose forwards standing static in the midfield waiting for the ball. I don’t blame him at all for not repeatedly flinging the ball out to them. His performance was the only highlight for me - he was excellent.

Bandage wrote:

I completely disagree with the above Reddan comments. Of course he had to take a few steps and try to make some breaks around the fringes himself seeing as our game plan seemed to be having either back row or loose forwards standing static in the midfield waiting for the ball. I don’t blame him at all for not repeatedly flinging the ball out to them. His performance was the only highlight for me - he was excellent.

Not talking about when he was trying to make a break Bandage. It was when he was giving the ball out to the backs. He always took at least a step and more often two. This made the pass easier but gave O’Gara less of a chance. Reddan’s service was not only slow but quiet often misplaced. Far poorer than Stringers. Reddan does have a good break on him though unlike Stringer. Even still Stringer should most certainly start against Argentina as quick ball will be of paramount importance.