Cheasty I’m very ignorant on these matters and I’m not trying to wind you up but honestly do you think the us and other global power houses are happy to see the Russians stuck in an un winnable war ?
You’re full of it. No-one is excusing putins actions, but adults will at least try to look at the situation- and they’re entitled to do so with out been censored by simple minded fools. There’s plenty of guilt to go round, as the man says.
Can you send me these scripted replies that you’ll be happy with?
No, because the west didn’t want war. Nobody in the west wanted Russia to start this war. It was Putin and Putin alone who wanted the war.
The reality now is this:
There is a war, the war must be won. That means at minimum , the west must provide enough weapons for Ukraine to win this war – which means a routing of the Russian army and a full restoration of Ukrainian territorial integrity, and the right of Ukraine to make its own alliances.
The downfall of the Putin regime is a natural by product of that.
This is the key conflict of our time. If it is not won comprehensively, the long term implications of it will be disastrous.
NATO and the west in general are petrified for entirely understandable reasons. They don’t want war against Russia. That thinking – that war against a country that thinks of itself as a “great power” - which Russia does, must be avoided at all costs. But this is the paradox. If you do not use the power you have, others, such as Russia, will. If you allow the likes of Russia to use what power they have and you do not push back, war will come to you, whether you like it or not.
This is the exact same thing that happened in the 1930s. Chamberlain wanted to avoid war, which was a noble aim. But he tried to avoid war by running away, which you can’t do. To avoid war, you have to stand up to the despot, threaten them. All the military power in the world is useless if you state clearly you will not use it, as the US has done. Because then there is no deterrent for the despot, there is only carte blanche for them to invade where they want.
Then you end up in a situation where you have to fight, where not fighting is untenable – but it’s a much worse situation from which to start being aggressive than if you had exercised basic deterrence – which is prevention.
This paradox is what the professional anti-war movement in the west refuses to understand, and that is why the professional anti-war movement in the west are to all intents and purposes, agents of Russia.
People in the west who call for “peace” are taking a morally indefensible position because that means the sacrificing of Ukraine – if Ukraine does not fight, there is no more Ukraine – because Putin will not withdraw voluntarily.
Not arming Ukraine at all here is not a morally defensible position. Arming Ukraine enough to “bog Russia down” here is not a morally defensible position either. The only morally defensible position is to arm Ukraine enough that it wins the war and defeats Russia. I don’t believe that is being done. And therefore the west’s position, while clearly much less morally abhorrent than Russia, is itself a moral vacuum. It is not a product of deliberate aim, it is a product of confusion and dithering. Innocent Ukrainians have become the victims.
5 Likes
It’s Ukraines fault for being invaded because the Americans didn’t give the Russians a ball of cash thirty years ago.
8 Likes
You are full of it. It is easy to see who on this thread is able to debate in a good faith fashion and who is not.
Your one and only aim on this thread is to find any excuse you possibly can to absolve Putin and Russia of their crimes.
It is pathetic.
And it is shot through with toxic racism. The right of small countries to govern themselves as free, democratic societies does not enter your thinking, only your eternal sympathy for a criminal, mafia, Nazi like regime and its dictator.
Putin’s Russia opposes NATO for one reason only - that NATO makes it a hell of a lot more difficult for Putin’s Russia to invade countries. I don’t need to explain why that’s a position nobody should take remotely seriously.
1 Like
You aren’t being censored. The arguments are just nonsense.
By god. We’ve just seen the imf, the eu, nato, American foreign policy, non proliferation treaties, post cold war commitments and promises etc all boiled down to a ball of cash thirty years ago. Well down @Fagan_ODowd. You should get a hape of likes for making a moron of yourself
It’s so simple when you look at it like that.
Did you get many?
7 Likes
Funny how you don’t mention the Budapest Memorandum in which Russia “guaranteed” to respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
Funny how you don’t mention that Vladimir Putin stated that NATO membership was a matter for Ukraine and NATO only.
Funny how you don’t mention that Vladimir Putin completely backtracked on this.
Any of ye cunts half thinking of doing a stroke of work today?
2 Likes
It’s like transition year United Nations
5 Likes
The affectation of (non-existent) knowledge on the part of this scumbag is both utterly predictable and hilarious.
A poster who is both morally bankrupt and utterly out of his depth.
He’s thinking of his pocket you see…. His Friday Fashion thread needs updating
2 Likes
Lads worrying about ww3 . Ill only start worrying about ww3 when @Rocko extends the time between posts to a half hour again. Then we’ll be in a bit of bother alright
1 Like
Do you think @carryharry and @Cheasty coloured in little flags and put them on ice pop sticks and stuck them in plasticine in front of them with a country name card. Like they are in the real UN
To make up for the absence of him having any contribution of value to make here, @TheUlteriorMotive should go off and film himself having a good self-pitying cry for his Instagram account, like that Russian Instagrammer did.
It would be entirely in keeping with his character - completely self-centred, attention seeking and vacuous.
Not saying for a millisecond it does. Putin is scum. No one in their right mind could dissemble about what is happening in Ukraine. Attacking a nuclear plant and bombing hospitals… Quite aside from the threat of world/nuclear war implicitly made by Putin. Of course, a fair few people, as abundantly made clear in the last weeks, are not in their right mind. And never were.
But it is true that wiser heads could have – and should have – acted differently in the 1990s. But all a one now.
1 Like