I caught some footage of some of the Baltic leaders today on BBC line and the we’re promising to go whole hog defending Ukraine. If they are attacked does that pull NATO in?
He’s as entitled to his opinion as you or me.
The principle of NATO is that if the territories of any member state are attacked, it’s a declaration of war against them all.
Russia attacking any Baltic troops in Ukraine would not constitute an attack on NATO but attacking, say, the Suwalki Gap, which is the narrow border between Poland and Lithuania which separates Kaliningrad from Belarus, most certainly would.
He’s an Enthic Ruskie who lived in Litania. I wouldn’t believe a word outa him.
I believe this is what’s going to happen. The Baltics will force the issue.
It does which is why neither side can directly engage. If NATO forces and Russia start firing at each other the nuclear winter will solve climate change.
Nothing can be ruled out. Wars tend not to go as envisaged at their beginning. It’s like if you’re pulling on a 50/50 ball, pull fucking hard because that way you stand less chance of getting hurt than if you go in half hearted.
The rhetoric of Putin and Surkov indicates that they believe that any territory that was ever controlled by Russia should be Russian again.
But we know from history, it doesn’t stop there.
They need to be stopped and now.
1 Like
I don’t know, I can’t reply here as my computer is under cyber attack.
1 Like
Putin is no Jack Lynch
1 Like
Was formerly a part of Russia as far as I know, so nothing else other than pure pig headed imperialism. Just like 2022.
Read the fucking room, ARD.
Then read this.
To those arguing that NATO expansion has been a constant source of tension with Russia, a few facts. 1/ THREAD
November 2001, Putin said this: “we differ in the ways and means we perceive that are suitable for reaching the same objective… [But] one can rest assured that whatever final solution is found, it will not threaten … the interests of both our countries and of the world.”
Putin also in 2001, “Russia acknowledges the role of NATO in the world of today, Russia is prepared to expand its cooperation with this organization. " 3/
"And if we change the quality of the relationship, if we change the format of the relationship between Russia and NATO, then I think NATO enlargement will cease to be an issue—will no longer be a relevant issue.” 4/
In 2001, on whether he opposed the Baltic states’ membership in NATO, Putin stated, “We of course are not in a position to tell people what to do. We cannot forbid people to make certain choices if they want to increase the security of their nations in a particular way.” 5/
Putin, May 2002, “I am absolutely convinced that Ukraine will not shy away from the processes of expanding interaction with NATO and the Western allies as a whole." 6/
Putin on Ukraine in NATO: "Ukraine has its own relations with NATO; there is the Ukraine-NATO Council. At the end of the day, the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine. It is a matter for those two partners.” 7/
So what changed? Democratic expansion, or what Putin calls US-supported coups in the post-communist world. Kremlin concerns about NATO expansion have been a variable, not a constant, over the last 30 years. They spike AFTER democratic breakthroughs. 8/
Zelensky speaks to the nation. The gravity of the situation looks to have really gotten to him.
“Today I initiated a phone conversation with the president of the Russian Federation. The result was silence. Although it’s the Donbas where there should be silence.”
He addresses Russians in Russian.
“We are divided by a shared border of more than 2,000km. Almost 200,000 of your troops and thousands of military vehicles are standing alongside it. Your leadership has ordered them to move forward, onto another country’s territory.”
“This step could be the start of a big war on the European continent. The whole world is talking about what could happen any day now,” says Zelensky. “Any provocation. Any flare-up – one that could burn everything.”
“They’re telling you that this flame will liberate the people of Ukraine, but the Ukrainian people are free. They remember their past and are building their future,” Zelensky says. “Ukraine on your TV news and the real Ukraine are two totally different countries. Ours is real.”
Zelensky talks about all the times he spent as an entertainer in the Donbas and how many friends he has with family from there.
“They told you I’m ordering an attack on Donbas, to open fire and bomb indiscriminately […] to shoot at whom? to bomb whom?”
Zelensky remembers a lot of specific places in Donetsk and Luhansk oblast he’s been. “I’m speaking Russian, but nobody in Russia understand what these places, streets, and events are. This is our land and our history. What are you fighting for? And with who?”
“Lots of you have relatives in Ukraine, you studied in Ukrainian universities, you have Ukrainian friends. You know our character, our principles, what matters to us. Listen to yourselves, to the voice of reason. The people of Ukraine want peace.”
“The government of Ukraine wants peace. It’s doing everything it can. We’re not alone. That’s true, lots of countries support Ukraine. Because this isn’t about peace at any price. It’s about peace, principles, justice, international law, the right to determine your own future.”
“This is about society’s right to be safe and people’s rights to live without threats. This is all important for us and for the world. I know for sure that this is important for you too.”
“We know for sure that we don’t need war – neither cold, nor hot, nor hybrid. But if troops attack us and someone tries to take away our country, our freedom, our lives, the lives of our children, then we will defend ourselves.”
“We will defend ourselves. When you attack, you will see our faces, not our backs. War is a great misfortune and it comes at a great price. People lose their money, reputation, freedom, living standards, and most importantly – they lose their loved ones nad themselves.”
“Nothing’s ever enough in a war, but there’s more than enough pain, dirt, and death. Tens of thousands of deaths. They’re telling you that Ukraine could be a threat for Russia. That never happened in the past, it’s not not and won’t in the future.”
“You demand security guarantees from Nato. We demand guarantees of our security. The security of Ukraine. From you, Russia, and the other guarantors of the Budapest memorandum. We aren’t in any defensive alliances. Ukraine’s security is tied to our neighbors’ security.”
“Today we need to talk about the security of the whole of Europe. But our main goal is peace in Ukraine and the security of our citizens, Ukrainians. We will tell everyone, including you, in different formats, in any venue.”
“War will take guarantees away from everyone. Nobody will have security guarantees anymore. Who will suffer most of all? People. Who doesn’t want that to happen more than anyone? People. Who can stop that? People.”
“These people are among you. I’m sure. Activists, journalists, musicians, actors, athletes, scientists, doctors, bloggers, stand-up comedians, TikTokers, and many others. Ordinary people, simple people, men, women, the old, the young, fathers, and most of all - mothers.”
“Just like the people in Ukraine. Just like the government in Ukraine. However they try to convince you otherwise. I know that Russian TV won’t show my speech. But citizens of Russia need to see it. They need to see the truth. The truth is you need to stop before it’s too late.”
“And if the leadership of Russia doesn’t want, for the sake of peace, to sit at the table with us, maybe it’ll sit at the table with you. Do the Russians want war? I’d love to answer that question. But the answer only depends on you – citizens of Russia.”
The first two minutes of that speech were in Ukrainian. Zelensky updated the nation on the state of emergency and his contacts with Ukraine’s western allies. “I thank everyone who supports Ukraine. We keep on working, he ended.”
But the next nine minutes, in which Zelensky addressed Russians directly, were absolutely astonishing.
A powerful, dignified, mature, and heartfelt appeal for peace between Russians and Ukrainians that couldn’t have been any more different from Putin’s resentful rant.
“Ukraine will break Putin. Our country might have to suffer greatly for it, but this is definitely the end for him,” writes my friend , one of Ukraine’s best reporters.
May Putin rot in hell.
Serious talk here at the UN, the French lad just gave a serious sounding speech and the UK representative scolded Putin. He must be trembling.
Meanwhile Putin just announced a “special military operation” in Donbas(s).
The war has begun.
“Lay down your arms” and a threat to the West if it responds.
The west will rue the months it did not place hundreds of thousands of troops in Ukraine.