Pat Vieira in his pomp with the gunners was superb, could dominate the midfield and cover the ground…Dogged fucker who had no problem throwing his weight around either
Essien is class, in the past, in the present, and in the future. The guy is just different class, the closest there’s been to Keane in the last 20 years in that role, but could very well be better.
[quote=“The Puke”]I like Carrick as a player, he has a fairly decent range of passing but as others have already said he lacks a bit of cut and thrust in his game…
Essien used to be outragiously good at lyon when he played as a box to box midfielder, used to cover huge amounts of ground and bang in a fair few goals…[/quote]
He was fantastic in that role in the last world cup for Ghana as well. He was everywhere and drove the whole team.
I would say in terms of all round ability Essien is a far better footballer…
Yeah he was unbelievably good in that tournament alright. Unplayable.
Keane was unbelievable.
I agree with MBB, Essien is the nearest thing I have seen to him but not there yet. His performance against Pool in the first leg was as fine of a performance from a midfielder as I have seen since Keane probably. But we shouldn’t be surprised as he is utterly class.
Vieria was a tad overrated in my view. Nowhere near Keane’s level.
[quote=“therock67”]While have seen you in both boxes in the same game Juhy, what we really have in mind when we’re talking about a box to box midfielder is someone who does that commute more than once in a game. Trotting backwards and forwards to get outjumped by the Croppy at corners at either end did not make you Roy Keane.
Yeah Essien is pure quality and as I said above I think he has the tools to play the complete midfield role. Just not sure the formation allows him to do it that often.
Carrick has ability but fuck all courage I don’t think. Doesn’t see half enough of the ball in dangerous areas (dangerous for either team) and has that loping style around the middle of the park where there’s a bit more room. He can tackle reasonably well but generally you’re talking about cultured slide tackles rather than getting stuck the fuck in. Which reminds me, I’m going to break some fucker up tonight in astro.[/quote]
I realise you’re lauded around Fingal for your aeriel prowess Rock but it’s interesting that you’d use a soccer tactics thread to bemoan the fact I never tried to compete with a player from my own team for a header. It was myself and the croppy as the spine of that team which was its greatest strength. With a sprinkling of flank magic from the duffer.
On Carrick lads, I know it’s unpopular but the lad is a super midfielder. We had struggled for midfield balance for a while before he came and have won the league in the two seasons since he joined. He’s not Essien and won’t be ever but he can and does control and dictate the pace of games. Saying he is only good when we’re two or three up is complete bollox.
I’m not blind or bitter. Paul Scholes was always a good footballer but lacked the presence and pace to be a top class centre midfielder. Roy Keane imo covered for him a good bit and gave him the licence to get around the box where he was dangerous. For England, Scholes was disgracefully poor as England lacked a player of Keane’s quality to protect the midfield and also run it. During Scholes time, England were generally ran rings around in the centre of the park at the major championships which was as much his fault as anyone elses. He ended up at around the left of midfield and when he couldnt hack it there, he retired.
If by the Keane role, you mean as a defensive midfielder/playmaker then that is horsehit of the highest order. Essien at Lyon and for his country plays more like Lampard box to box scoring goals, getting beyond the strikers etc. Hiddink has put him in the Makelele role for Chelsea for the last few months and he has done reasonably well. He marshalled Gerrard expertly in a man marking role in which his power and athleticism were too much for Gerrard. In doing so he sacrificied his own game. But there is a difference between man marking a top player and actually performing the Keane role as a defensive midfielder but also a deep lying midfielder. Essien proved his complete inability to perform this in the secong leg where he was lost without anyone to man mark and failed to a) protect the defense and b) affect the game from a deep lying position.
[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Keane was unbelievable.
I agree with MBB, Essien is the nearest thing I have seen to him but not there yet. His performance against Pool in the first leg was as fine of a performance from a midfielder as I have seen since Keane probably. But we shouldnt be surprised as he is utterly class.
Vieria was a tad overrated in my view. Nowhere near Keanes level.[/quote]
Predictable tripe from Farmer. Vieira won medals in England, Italy and for his country at the highest level. He was an outstanding player and in my memory tended to get the better of Keane more often than not in their tussles. One of most forgotten elements of that tunnel row a few years back was how outstanding Patrick Vieira was in that game afterwards. He scored a cracking goal and dominated the midfield for the most part. Like Keane, Vieira lost focus towards the end of his time at Arsenal and Wenger correctly sold him. Fergie should have done likewise a year if not two before he kicked Keane out.
[quote=“KIB man”]
Predictable tripe from Farmer. Vieira won medals in England, Italy and for his country at the highest level. He was an outstanding player and in my memory tended to get the better of Keane more often than not in their tussles. One of most forgotten elements of that tunnel row a few years back was how outstanding Patrick Vieira was in that game afterwards. He scored a cracking goal and dominated the midfield for the most part. Like Keane, Vieira lost focus towards the end of his time at Arsenal and Wenger correctly sold him. Fergie should have done likewise a year if not two before he kicked Keane out.[/quote]
I thought Viera was good if a little over inflated in hype, but not much and was a good box to box player.
but I have to take you up on the tunnel incident game. Viera scored within 5 minutes of the start, a good header from a corner if memory serves me right, but he was shite after that and Keane was hands down the best player on the pitch and got the MOTM award.
[quote=“Gman”]I thought Viera was good if a little over inflated in hype, but not much and was a good box to box player.
but I have to take you up on the tunnel incident game. Viera scored within 5 minutes of the start, a good header from a corner if memory serves me right, but he was shite after that and Keane was hands down the best player on the pitch and got the MOTM award.[/quote]
Nonsense Gman, Vieria was outstanding. His defence had turned to cack by then though. If memory serves correct, Rooney was United’s main man that night with Johnno coming on to rub salt in the wounds with a late goal.
[quote=“KIB man”]
Predictable tripe from Farmer. Vieira won medals in England, Italy and for his country at the highest level. He was an outstanding player and in my memory tended to get the better of Keane more often than not in their tussles. One of most forgotten elements of that tunnel row a few years back was how outstanding Patrick Vieira was in that game afterwards. He scored a cracking goal and dominated the midfield for the most part. Like Keane, Vieira lost focus towards the end of his time at Arsenal and Wenger correctly sold him. Fergie should have done likewise a year if not two before he kicked Keane out.[/quote]
You’re some clown.
I never said that he was shite or anything but just that he was slightly overrated. He barely played for France in 1998 by the way. Also the United team of the 90s was far more successful than the Arsenal one and Keane was the main part of that. I don’t recall all these times when Vieira got the better of him. I can’t recall the game with the row in the tunnel but did Keane not get man of the match for it.
Vieirs also had a habit of diving and going down like a girl. He gave it out but couldn’t take it.
[quote=“farmerinthecity”]You’re some clown.
I never said that he was shite or anything but just that he was slightly overrated. He barely played for France in 1998 by the way. Also the United team of the 90s was far more successful than the Arsenal one and Keane was the main part of that. I don’t recall all these times when Vieira got the better of him. I can’t recall the game with the row in the tunnel but did Keane not get man of the match for it.
Vieirs also had a habit of diving and going down like a girl. He gave it out but couldn’t take it.[/quote]
Guess his outstanding performances in Euro 2000, which France won and also the 2006 World Cup which they lost on penalties have slipped your mind. He showed great promise in 1998 but he starred in later championships.
Viera dives, Gerrard dives, Ashley Young dives, Roy Keane was once sent off for diving, Drogba dives, Duff dives even Gary Neville dives etc etc
[quote=“KIB man”]Guess his outstanding performances in Euro 2000, which France won and also the 2006 World Cup which they lost on penalties have slipped your mind. He showed great promise in 1998 but he starred in later championships.
Viera dives, Gerrard dives, Ashley Young dives, Roy Keane was once sent off for diving, Drogba dives, Duff dives even Gary Neville dives etc etc[/quote]
They didn’t slip my mind. I just pointed out that he wasn’t really involved in them winning the World Cup.
Maybe the fact that I never really criticised Vieria slipped your mind? Maybe you are just looking for a fight?
I wouldn’t say Vieira was overrated, he held that Arsenal team together, any time he was missing you could see the difference…The likes of Ljungberg, Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell and Cole were fine players but Vieira and Henry were teh heartbeat of that team…
Roy Keane for me was a superb player but as an allround footballer he was all that special, his range of passing was average and he hadn’t that much pace, but he was a hell of a competitor and the intensityand determination with which he played made him stand out…In terms of footballing ability and overall game I would take Essien or Vieira any day of the week but if you want a leader of men and a warrior Keane is your man
no, I think you’re wrong there. I remember the game because I was watching it with Utd fans and it stuck out in my mind. I had said when Viera scored, ‘wheres Keane now yez cunts’ and at the end of it all and Keane getting the MOTM they shoved it back in my face.
that was alaso the game, if again my old memeory serves me right, where rooney slid in on viera, and missed him, but viera went down like a pussy.
a quick google search got me this report by the guardian, feel free to find one where it lamenst Vieras showing that night.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/feb/02/match.sport
United must believe they will re-enter the Champions League this month in far better condition. With an extra man deployed in midfield they eventually dominated as Roy Keane had one of those nights when power somehow surges through his ageing body
[quote=“KIB man”]
Predictable tripe from Farmer. Vieira won medals in England, Italy and for his country at the highest level. He was an outstanding player and in my memory tended to get the better of Keane more often than not in their tussles. One of most forgotten elements of that tunnel row a few years back was how outstanding Patrick Vieira was in that game afterwards. He scored a cracking goal and dominated the midfield for the most part. Like Keane, Vieira lost focus towards the end of his time at Arsenal and Wenger correctly sold him. Fergie should have done likewise a year if not two before he kicked Keane out.[/quote]
Your miles off…Keane lorded that match…always remember a very young Fabregas chickening out of 70-30 challenge with keane…keane actually set up atleast one goal that night…it was probably his last great performance for united…
[quote=“The Puke”]I wouldn’t say Vieira was overrated, he held that Arsenal team together, any time he was missing you could see the difference…The likes of Ljungberg, Pires, Bergkamp, Campbell and Cole were fine players but Vieira and Henry were teh heartbeat of that team…
Roy Keane for me was a superb player but as an allround footballer he was all that special, his range of passing was average and he hadn’t that much pace, but he was a hell of a competitor and the intensityand determination with which he played made him stand out…In terms of footballing ability and overall game I would take Essien or Vieira any day of the week but if you want a leader of men and a warrior Keane is your man[/quote]
Keane held United’s midfield together by himself practically. Scholes was never a proper midfielder and do all what goes with it - tackling, dictating the pace of a game etc.
A lot of Keane’s work went unnoticed. Picking the ball up from the centre halves and laying it off. Winning challenges, tidying up and laying it off. He also burst through with a few attacks, and goals, at times as well.
You would actually forget how good of a footballer he was.
David Batty used to do the same but never got the credit
Viera scored one and set up another, your point is again?
Puke average ball hop is laughable.
Essien is a fantastic player, but has yet to become the palyer Keane was in his pomp. Injury may have stunted this, and it will surely come. He would do better at a club where he doesnt have to cover for the faults of the likes of Lampard and Ballack mind you, where he’s made play a “makelelelelelelelele role” (what a pile of bollocks that phrase is).
By the way, Keane wasn’t a defensive midfielder, he wasn’t an attacking midfielder, he was a midfielder, capable of doing it it all better than anyone in his class, but neither a one trick pony like Makeleleleelelelelelelele or a forward running midfielder who couldnt tackle like Scholes.
Essien will surpass Keane imo, but he hasnt yet.