Soccer Tactics Thread

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Keane held United’s midfield together by himself practically. Scholes was never a proper midfielder and do all what goes with it - tackling, dictating the pace of a game etc.

A lot of Keane’s work went unnoticed. Picking the ball up from the centre halves and laying it off. Winning challenges, tidying up and laying it off. He also burst through with a few attacks, and goals, at times as well.

You would actually forget how good of a footballer he was.[/quote]

tahts fair enough farmer but its not necessarily holding a midfield together by himself…where did he go with ball he picked up…5 yards to the more creative players like scholes to work their magic…
I’d rate Senna from Villareal very highly when playing for his club…playing for Spain he’s told to sit in midfield a lot more and let Xavi get on with it…

Ah come on Puke - there was some difference though.

Keane did all that but had an ability to drive a team by himself and literally carry them on his back.

???, nasty little fucker.

[quote=“myboyblue”]Essien is a fantastic player, but has yet to become the palyer Keane was in his pomp. Injury may have stunted this, and it will surely come. He would do better at a club where he doesnt have to cover for the faults of the likes of Lampard and Ballack mind you, where he’s made play a “makelelelelelelelele role” (what a pile of bollocks that phrase is).

By the way, Keane wasn’t a defensive midfielder, he wasn’t an attacking midfielder, he was a midfielder, capable of doing it it all better than anyone in his class, but neither a one trick pony like Makeleleleelelelelelelele or a forward running midfielder who couldnt tackle like Scholes.

Essien will surpass Keane imo, but he hasnt yet.[/quote]

Agree with all of that.

Don’t know if anyone will ever surpass Keane though.

[quote=“KIB man”]Viera scored one and set up another, your point is again?

Puke average ball hop is laughable.[/quote]

don’t take my word for it…:wink:

United storm the battle of Highbury

  • Guardian report
  • Match facts

Premier League
Arsenal 2

  • Vieira 8,
  • Bergkamp 36

Manchester United 4

  • Giggs 18,

  • Ronaldo 54,

  • Ronaldo 58,

  • O’Shea 89

  • Kevin McCarra at Highbury
    * The Guardian, Wednesday 2 February 2005 01.50 GMT

  • Article history

A spirited and inexhaustible Manchester United cannot have given up hope of the title after this. They must feel that any adversary is within their reach, even if Chelsea will hold their biggest advantage of the season, with an 11-point lead, if they win at Blackburn tonight. Mere numbers are too puny to intimidate United this morning.

Their powers of recovery were immense as, buoyed by a pair of Cristiano Ronaldo goals, they twice came from behind to beat Arsenal despite the dismissal of Mikal Silvestre for butting Freddie Ljungberg when 21 minutes remained. With moments to go, the substitute John O’Shea scored by chipping stylishly over Manuel Almunia to emphasise that Arsenal’s interest in the Premiership is over.

There were allegations and recriminations, fouls and dives, but the deepest impression was left in the minds of the crowd rather than on the bruised limbs of the combatants: United were markedly better. It should be a while before anyone dares argue that Arsenal are still a more evolved species of football team.

United must believe they will re-enter the Champions League this month in far better condition. With an extra man deployed in midfield they eventually dominated as Roy Keane had one of those nights when power somehow surges through his ageing body.

His first confrontation took place even before the game had started. Tempestuous ill-will was spawned in Arsenal’s defeat at Old Trafford in October and the Highbury tunnel proved to be an overflow area for that animosity prior to kick-off. Keane squabbled with Patrick Vieira and the captains had to be lectured by the splendid referee Graham Poll.

The next extended view Keane would have of the Arsenal captain featured Vieira wheeling away in celebration. It is rare indeed for Arsenal to score from a corner but the Frenchman got in front of Gabriel Heinze to head in after eight minutes.

In that moment Keane’s belligerent exchange with Vieira looked lame, and, for a while, anyone who had talked heatedly about this fixture rued their words. Sol Campbell, so frank about the yearning for revenge, did inadvertent harm to Arsenal’s cause at the equaliser in the 18th minute.

The determined Paul Scholes charged down his clearance and then picked out Wayne Rooney on the left. The teenager showed a perfection of touch in a first-time cutback which was swept into the net, with a deflection off Ashley Cole, by the on-rushing Ryan Giggs.

Rooney, deployed as an out-and-out centre-forward, embodied the divided character of the evening. He had the pace and touch to receive a pass from Giggs and race past Cole before firing against Almunia’s legs four minutes before the interval.

In the remainder of the first half, however, he was booked for persistent fouling and looked near to a red card for dissent. A veteran understandably found it much simpler to show how commitment can be properly directed. Dennis Bergkamp was full of subtlety and enthusiasm from the fourth minute, when he slipped through a pass which Roy Carroll only just blocked with his feet.

Just as Sir Alex Ferguson’s team seemed to be subduing Arsenal, Rio Ferdinand, in the 35th minute, stood off to let Thierry Henry take a Vieira pass and turn. Bergkamp charged through on the right to accept his team-mate’s service and fire home through Carroll’s legs from an angle.

Arsenal might also have had a penalty by then since Silvestre seemed to make contact with Robert Pires as the midfielder ran across him in the 22nd minute.

Arsne Wenger’s side must be aware that a degree of vulnerability is as inescapable a part of their nature as panache. Opponents with United’s zest and skill are virtually impossible for Arsenal to contain and a knee injury to Campbell could now aggravate the problem.

When Rooney and then Giggs, with impeccable technique, moved the play to the left in the 55th minute Ronaldo charged clear and drove low beyond Almunia from an angle. The momentum of United could not readily be checked and, from a short free-kick, Rooney hit the woodwork seconds before Arsenal’s brittle resistance was snapped once more.

Pires lost possession to Keane after 58 minutes and the captain angled a pass inside Vieira on the right. He had no hope of catching the sprinting Giggs and Almunia induced a crisis by bolting out to the wing. Once the United winger had clipped a low cross beyond him Ronaldo slipped the ball into the net. After that, not even the red card for Silvestre, who butted Ljungberg after shoving Bergkamp over, could stop United’s relentless progress to victory.

McCarra is class.

[quote=“scumpot”]don’t take my word for it…:wink:

United storm the battle of Highbury

  • Guardian report
  • Match facts

Premier League
Arsenal 2

  • Vieira 8,
  • Bergkamp 36

Manchester United 4

  • Giggs 18,

  • Ronaldo 54,

  • Ronaldo 58,

  • O’Shea 89

  • Kevin McCarra at Highbury
    * The Guardian, Wednesday 2 February 2005 01.50 GMT

  • Article history

A spirited and inexhaustible Manchester United cannot have given up hope of the title after this. They must feel that any adversary is within their reach, even if Chelsea will hold their biggest advantage of the season, with an 11-point lead, if they win at Blackburn tonight. Mere numbers are too puny to intimidate United this morning.

Their powers of recovery were immense as, buoyed by a pair of Cristiano Ronaldo goals, they twice came from behind to beat Arsenal despite the dismissal of Mikal Silvestre for butting Freddie Ljungberg when 21 minutes remained. With moments to go, the substitute John O’Shea scored by chipping stylishly over Manuel Almunia to emphasise that Arsenal’s interest in the Premiership is over.

There were allegations and recriminations, fouls and dives, but the deepest impression was left in the minds of the crowd rather than on the bruised limbs of the combatants: United were markedly better. It should be a while before anyone dares argue that Arsenal are still a more evolved species of football team.

United must believe they will re-enter the Champions League this month in far better condition. With an extra man deployed in midfield they eventually dominated as Roy Keane had one of those nights when power somehow surges through his ageing body.

His first confrontation took place even before the game had started. Tempestuous ill-will was spawned in Arsenal’s defeat at Old Trafford in October and the Highbury tunnel proved to be an overflow area for that animosity prior to kick-off. Keane squabbled with Patrick Vieira and the captains had to be lectured by the splendid referee Graham Poll.

The next extended view Keane would have of the Arsenal captain featured Vieira wheeling away in celebration. It is rare indeed for Arsenal to score from a corner but the Frenchman got in front of Gabriel Heinze to head in after eight minutes.

In that moment Keane’s belligerent exchange with Vieira looked lame, and, for a while, anyone who had talked heatedly about this fixture rued their words. Sol Campbell, so frank about the yearning for revenge, did inadvertent harm to Arsenal’s cause at the equaliser in the 18th minute.

The determined Paul Scholes charged down his clearance and then picked out Wayne Rooney on the left. The teenager showed a perfection of touch in a first-time cutback which was swept into the net, with a deflection off Ashley Cole, by the on-rushing Ryan Giggs.

Rooney, deployed as an out-and-out centre-forward, embodied the divided character of the evening. He had the pace and touch to receive a pass from Giggs and race past Cole before firing against Almunia’s legs four minutes before the interval.

In the remainder of the first half, however, he was booked for persistent fouling and looked near to a red card for dissent. A veteran understandably found it much simpler to show how commitment can be properly directed. Dennis Bergkamp was full of subtlety and enthusiasm from the fourth minute, when he slipped through a pass which Roy Carroll only just blocked with his feet.

Just as Sir Alex Ferguson’s team seemed to be subduing Arsenal, Rio Ferdinand, in the 35th minute, stood off to let Thierry Henry take a Vieira pass and turn. Bergkamp charged through on the right to accept his team-mate’s service and fire home through Carroll’s legs from an angle.

Arsenal might also have had a penalty by then since Silvestre seemed to make contact with Robert Pires as the midfielder ran across him in the 22nd minute.

Arsne Wenger’s side must be aware that a degree of vulnerability is as inescapable a part of their nature as panache. Opponents with United’s zest and skill are virtually impossible for Arsenal to contain and a knee injury to Campbell could now aggravate the problem.

When Rooney and then Giggs, with impeccable technique, moved the play to the left in the 55th minute Ronaldo charged clear and drove low beyond Almunia from an angle. The momentum of United could not readily be checked and, from a short free-kick, Rooney hit the woodwork seconds before Arsenal’s brittle resistance was snapped once more.

Pires lost possession to Keane after 58 minutes and the captain angled a pass inside Vieira on the right. He had no hope of catching the sprinting Giggs and Almunia induced a crisis by bolting out to the wing. Once the United winger had clipped a low cross beyond him Ronaldo slipped the ball into the net. After that, not even the red card for Silvestre, who butted Ljungberg after shoving Bergkamp over, could stop United’s relentless progress to victory.[/quote]

Kevin McCarra great :wink:

Sure highlight the bits about Viera too :smiley:

[quote=“farmerinthecity”]Ah come on Puke - there was some difference though.

Keane did all that but had an ability to drive a team by himself and literally carry them on his back.[/quote]

Agre witth you completely farmer and like I said earlier keane’s strongest points/attributes in my opinion was not his footbaling ability but his attitude and determination, he went out and made the midfield a battle and he more often than not won it, like I say I don’t think he had a great range of pasing, but he was by no means a bad passer of the ball, he also lacked pace but it was his mental attributes more so than his physical attributes than made him an outstanding player

Don’t think you’re giving him half enough credit there. He was an excellent passer of the ball and more to the point he always did it in traffic.

Everyone knows about his attitude, without his composure and distribution of the ball he wouldn’t have been special.

Keane’s greatest gift was probably that he dictated the tempo of games…especially in Old trafford…he could take the sting out of the games by doing his trademark 5 yard passes…getting it back and going 5 yards in the other direction…everything went through him…

All of which adds to my original posting, that Essien will be class, but he hasn’t gotten to Keane’s level of dominance on the game yet.

yet.

[quote=“KIB man”]Kevin McCarra great :wink:

Sure highlight the bits about Viera too ;)[/quote]

stop clutching lad…you’re wrong about that particular match…

[quote=“KIB man”]Viera scored one and set up another, your point is again?

Puke average ball hop is laughable.[/quote]

address my point so which has a report form the guardian on the game. I take your point about Viera, and to be honest, whilst I wouldnt fully agree, I still thought he was a very good player.

the one thing I completely disagree on is the reference of you using that game as an argument for the positives in Viera.

keane was half the player of midfielders such as sammer, moller, effenberg ,redondo,seedorf,zidaine to name but a few & the Irish are the only people who rate him otherwise- the traitor is more known on the continent for his stirling performances in crisp ads than for been a good midfielder

[quote=“myboyblue”]All of which adds to my original posting, that Essien will be class, but he hasn’t gotten to Keane’s level of dominance on the game yet.

yet.[/quote]

how many big games did keane dominate - fookin ballack dominated him twice for leverkusen for fucks sake - too many times did utd lose big games & keane simply didnt dominate them - there were countless german players who had a bit of dig that would match him phyisically & then there superior technical ability would outshine him

What did you make of David Batty, ncc?

similar to the traitor - good at what he did like keane but not a great

I would rate them similarly, maybe Keane slightly higher but two competitors who lacked the range of passing and pace to be real top class footballers

i agree 100%, i pity people who rate the water carriers higher than the artists

Well you need a water carrier or two, Didier Deschamp for France in 1998 or Stuart McCall on that superb Rangers team in the 1990s but a team of Watercarriers will win fuck all…