Sport and money

Gary McAllister (Rangers fan), Gordon Strachan, Eric Cantona, Lee Chapman, Gary Speed and all the rest became honorary members of the Provisional IRA for two evenings.

John Lukic was clearly Stakeknife.

Richard Gough had South African connections, you imagined he or somebody in his family was probably involved in gun running from apartheid South Africa to Loyalist paramilitaries.

@mickee321 occasionally brings up the time the white South Africans sang the apartheid anthem at the first rugby game South Africa played after being banned. South Africa v New Zealand at Ellis Park on August 22nd, 1992.

That singing was twinned in a very spiritual sense with Ibrox Park on those Champions League nights.

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You just see it in every sport where money is matched With analytics and expertise it just doesn’t fail.

I’d be very worried going forward for a lot of sports. If Dublin go on another all Ireland winning spree will anything be done or will something change?

You see it in football. Bayern Munich, psg and other clubs have reduced their leagues to rosenbourg situations.

In rugby the difference between Ireland and wales was huge but Ireland three lads who qualified through residency played for Ireland v wales and we’re
Key men. Those three lads wouldn’t end up in wales because they wouldn’t have the money to attract them.

In horse racing when spending power meets with training expertise and sales expertise it’s just a walk over.

Comparing the 5 Nations to actual league competitions :rofl:

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your argument was guff until the bit about the LOI and now i love it

I’ll try and make a serious but inevitably somewhat rambling reply to this.

It depends what you mean by “peak”. The standard of pretty much all sports now is higher than it ever was. People are not claiming that sport of 30 years or 50 years ago is a higher standard than it is now. It isn’t. The players are fitter, the money (in professional sport) earned is greater, more time is dedicated by sportspeople to their craft and it’s more scientific. The coverage is far more comprehensive.

But in a way it’s these very advances that have turned people off. Sport seems so much serious and formal now - and yet that seriousness has made it seem less serious to the average punter - or less connected. Less connected in that most sport feels more a branch of the entertainment industry than something rooted in community and society. I think anyway. I think all sports seem to be drifting away from something rooted in community and society to being something more disconnected, much more corporatised, and predictable.

What a lot of people imagine as the “peak” of sport is when it was at its most enjoyable - not necessarily the most innocent - because the most innocent time was the 19th century, but where there was at least a certain feeling of innocence. It was the very informality and often shambolic nature of ye olde sport that created the connection and made things feel more serious to the attendee or viewer. It was the connectedness. It was the communality of culture. The accessibility. The idea of 135,000 people standing together in Hampden Park, the idea of Hill 16 and banners and flags and scarves, or the shot of the Lansdowne Road end after Ronnie Whelan scored against the North in 1989 singing Que Sera Sera. The key factor which made that image so powerful was that everybody on that terrace was packed in like sardines standing together, focussed on nothing else except singing and raising their scarves or flags or inflatable bananas above their heads.

You mention the Liverpool of Fowler. When people recall the 1995/96 season they recall it because they felt it mattered. It mattered most of all to Newcastle. There were two main figures in the drama - Kevin Keegan and Eric Cantona. The whole thing played out as a human tragedy for Keegan and for Newcastle and as the glorious return of a villain/hero (depending on your team). The Gerrard slip and Liverpool failing at the very end in 2014 played out in a similar way. These were communal events experienced communally. They’re becoming rarer and rarer.

The communality and informality is breaking down, everything is more fragmented and more cynical now. We refuse to give up the trappings of modern society like online shopping and obsession with mobile phones and computers, and yet we hate ourselves for it. Concentration of wealth is a major issue in sport, as it is in society.

If I was to pick one thing that really annoys people, it’s the GAA’s insistence on online only tickets. This puts up such a mental barrier to entry. It turns people off in a visceral way, in a somewhat irrational way, but in a real way. It makes people grumpy and discontented, dissatisfied, cynical. It weakens the emotional bond. Emotional bond is everything. There are so many small things of this nature that are weakening the emotional bonds to sport among the public.

There are exceptions and anomalies to this sort of view and obviously you can pick holes in it - for instance Gaelic football was very predictable between about 1973 and 1990 - but I think it’s more true than not.

I could probably write 10,000 words about this but I prefer to bore people in pubs with those 10,000 words.

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Sport is also about entertainment at the top level but the standard being higher doesn’t equate to more entertainment.

Very few sports are a better spectacle than ten years ago.

I would posit that in 20 or 30 years time middle aged men on the internet will look back on the glory days of the 2’20’s as being footballs peak, and complain that current football is a disgrace.
In the same way middle aged men in the 90s would tell you that the era of Clough. Revie, Shankly was the peak of football.

Misty eyed revisionism

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Sport is made by the setting. The setting determines who attends.

Cusack Park in Ennis is probably the best place to watch hurling in Ireland, but it isn’t the highest standard of stadium. But that isn’t the point. Part of the reason people want to watch hurling there is because it is a bear pit when full. If people know a place will be a bear pit when full, they have an incentive to fill it and make it that bear pit.

The “Aviva Stadium” is a higher standard stadium than Lansdowne Road, but I doubt many people who attended Lansdowne Road on a regular basis prefer to attend the “Aviva Stadium” than they did Lansdowne Road. I don’t. I find it a depressing place, even if it looks alright from the outside. It’s a very formal place . The design of the stadium has a direct impact on the atmosphere. That has a direct impact on whether a game there will be worth watching.

The night KDB loaded 5 bullets into the gun for Erling the VIking to fire Luton out of the Cup.

Cusack Park at capacity is an absolutely awful place to watch hurling if you are not situated in a couple of particular spots. Great atmosphere but not a great place to watch a match.

Limerick v Clare will fill Cusack Park because it’s Limerick v Clare in a relatively small stadium.

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The peak of English club football was the Leeds era. I wasn’t alive for it. The whole package was better then than it was when I started watching.

Who will look upon Abu Dhabi dominance and the rise of petro-state clubs and ever increasing concentration of wealth as a golden era? I don’t look back on the years of Kerry or Kilkenny dominance as golden eras for Gaelic football or hurling. I look upon the Dublin-Mayo rivalry as a golden rivalry but only because Mayo pushed Dublin to the very limit every time, and bookended the rivalry by beating them twice. And because it was city v country, and because Mayo hadn’t (and still haven’t) won since 1951. And that rivalry, while great in and of itself, pushed Gaelic football into an era where very few could compete. It made most of the championship into a procession.

Liverpool supporters will look upon the Klopp years as a golden era because Klopp is a Shankly type figure. He is rare in modern sport in that he provides connection on a human level. He gets his players and teams to punch above their weight. It’s that connection that matters. Liverpool supporters fear what will happen when he leaves. So do supporters of other teams, because Liverpool under Klopp have always been the main driver of interest. A future where the English league becomes the sole preserve of Abu Dhabi, with possibly only Saudi Arabia and the hedge fund circus of Chelsea to provide any remote resistance, is a grim one.

I’d be interested to know what you think are the best eras of various sports and why.

Attending sport is about atmosphere, not the quality of a vantage point. The emptier the stadium, the better your vantage point is likely to be.

I like to see all of what’s going on, as I’m sure a lot of attendees do.

I prefer older grounds in general and Cusack Park is very atmospheric, it was perfect for the Harty Cup final but is far from ideal when at capacity.

Meath and Dublin used to be absolutely magic.

It’s not magic know because of a stadium.

It’s because other factors have come into play.

A full new Croke Park is good. But a full Croke Park is rare, very rare. The new Croke Park with anything less than 60k is baaaad. You could make a good atmosphere with 30k in the old Croke Park. 30k in the new Croke Park is tumbleweed stuff. 50k can be little more than tumbleweed stuff.

Dublin v Meath is uncompetitive anyway, so people don’t turn up. If 30k turn up on a cold windy late April afternoon, and Dublin win by 17 points, that means it’s the grimmest of grim, depressing spectacles.

The Gaelic football championship now is filled with these sort of grim spectacles. I’m not sure how the competition survives if these grim spectacles become the norm, and they are now very much the norm.

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If you can see the game, you can see it. The nature of every GAA stadium is they contain mostly shit vantage points because the pitch is 145 metres long and 90 metres wide. Croke Park has a wide selection of shit vantage points. In any GAA stadium roughly 20-25% of the vantage points available will be “good” ones.

Ah I don’t think that’s true. I can’t remember the GAA action of the 1990’s but am fully aware that it was the golden era of competitiveness and drama. The narratives are much blander nowadays. Leitrim winning a Connaught championship or 5/6 contenders to win the Leinster football championship seems incredibly far fetched now.

Young lads nowadays are very unfortunate to be growing up in era where association football has become warped to such an extent that Liverpool winning the league would be viewed as an underdog story. Again I wasn’t around in the late 80’s/early 90’s but an era where you have crack European teams emerging from everywhere to win Europes top prize captures the public’s imagination far more. You just couldn’t imagine a Porto, Steau Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade or PSV winning a Champions League nowadays. No era of sport is perfect but it’s becoming an increasingly money dominated domain where your only hope is a petro-dollar takeover.

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Do you talk like this in the pub?

Another example.

Insane investment in the private schools in rugby to develop kids.

None of the other three provinces can compete with investment in youngsters.

Give it ten years or so.

Leinster completely dominate at every age grade and international selections.

9 of the 11 central contracts now are Leinster players.

Able to reinvest in the best foreign players.

Not quite Dublin footballers or Man City just yet but give it a few years.

The gaa need to take note and make drastic changes to the inter county seasons before it’s too late.