I was ata very strange one there a few months back, the family must have decided to bring the issue to the fore because both the priest and her mother referredd to it during the service as taking her own life, they also had a collection instead of flowers going to some suicide charity
Shockingly common sadly. A guy near me a fortnight ago, 29, suicide aswell. Must be unbearably hard for the parents.
Fair play to the mother and the priest. The collection thing is becoming quite common now which at least is something and shows people aren’t afraid to hide it.
There is a bit more to the stigma tho lads and it comes down to money unfortunately.
I only know this because a friend of my mother’s committed suicide lately. My dad actually found her. She had given instructions of where she was and took an overdose, very sad.
My parents went to the coroner as my father was due to give evidence. An open verdict was given which meant that her life assurance paid out and her kids got to keep the home. Apparently if death by suicide is recorded then the insurance companies are not bound to pay out.
The problem with reporting suicides openly is the fact that they have attributed it to the phenomenon known as ‘clusters’. This is why often families and media agencies/suicide charities are reluctant to report them, for fear of putting ideas as such into (especially) young people’s minds - and especially so if it’s a ‘celebrity’ in case of imitation suicides. It’s a double edged sword
One of my brothers best friends took his own life two years ago and we we really worried about him and his friends for a while. Thankfully they’ve taken the other route and now campaign and raise funds for a suicide charity that are shamefully underfunded, and have held sessions in the club for the younger members. It’s a great charity btwhttp://www.pieta.ie/
was thinking this very same thing on the way into work this morning mac, and you’re dead right. It’s a hard one to bring up, but it shouldnt be really. There is such a stigma to suicide and I dont know why. I know media has to be sure that it wasnt an accident, but even after, a lot of people and media pussy foot around the topic and just have the general ‘tragic circumstance, not suspicious’.
I know its tough on families and friends, but it should be out there and we should be doing what we can to help prevent these things. In my own short life, I can think of 7 funerals I have been to which were due to suicide. Some close friends or team mates, others parents, others friends of friends. It’s a terrible thing to happen, but its a huge problem ini this country and it seems like people prefer to sweep it under the carpet than try make awareness or help prevention.
This was is the Times recently-
Taking care not to hurt when helping
MIND MOVES: I HAD the pleasure of speaking to the staff of a secondary school in south Dublin recently as they prepared to open their doors to more than 500 pupils. Together we covered a broad range of mental health issues that arise in school settings. Inevitably, the issue of self-harm and suicide was raised. A question asked of me by one teacher struck me as particularly pertinent: Is there a danger that talking about suicide with young people might put ideas in their heads?
With persistent reports coming at us from all sides about young people and suicide, I felt his question echoed a fundamental anxiety felt by teachers, parents and everyone engaged in the care of young people. The answer is not straightforward and it is beyond the scope of this column to be able to consider it adequately. But here are some things that we know and dont know about this issue.
The evidence is that 20 per cent of young people aged 12-20 have had thoughts about suicide sometime in the past 12 months, but they often find it a difficult subject to raise. What this means is that we cannot assume that young people will bring up the subject themselves, no matter how much it is troubling them or how much they may want to.
For those young people who do seek help, when asked sensitively the majority will disclose honestly how they feel and experience some measure of relief having done so. Some research carried out with young people who have accessed mental health services indicates that, not alone is it okay to ask young people sensitively and directly whether they have thoughts of harming themselves, but that it is actually best practice to do so.
Having suicidal thoughts and feelings is one thing; acting on them is quite another matter.
A number of risk factors have been identified, but the following three questions are particularly worth asking: Has the young person been thinking this way persistently for some time? Have they been engaging in behaviour that is clearly harmful? Has their distress had the effect of isolating them from their family and close friends?
A yes to any of the above is reason to be concerned, and to encourage and facilitate that young person in making contact with a GP or some professional counsellor.
What is clear is that when young people do come to us in distress, we need to talk to them very openly, not only about what is going on for them generally, but specifically on the matter of suicidal thoughts and self-harm behaviour.
What we are much less clear on is the impact of talking about suicide to those young people whose distress is hidden, who do not directly seek anyones support or advice. We dont yet have the evidence available to answer the teachers question in respect of this group of young people, particularly when it comes to general group-based discussions about the issue.
It is likely that suicide will be discussed at some point, given the frequency with which young peoples lives are touched by this issue. But when we do speak about it, we need to consider that what we say has the potential to inflame hidden wounds among some young people. Ideally, any conversation about suicide and self-harm needs to be part of a much larger conversation about the reality of distress in all our lives and the capacity in all of us to engage with pain and grow through it.
If the subject of suicide arises outside of such a conversation, we need to be aware that there is the possibility that it may leave some young people feeling even more vulnerable and alone. Paradoxically, this may increase their distress or lead them to consider self-harm or suicide as valid ways to deal with the pain they are carrying that they feel unable to share.
It is therefore vital that any discussion on suicide or self-harm needs to be accompanied by clearly identified ways to access support for those who are feeling vulnerable. A trusted adult in that setting should be identified for anyone who feels they would like to speak privately about the issues raised by the discussion. In addition, details need to be provided for a number of alternative options for speaking to people or agencies outside the school.
This does not fully answer the question of how to address this issue in a way that is likely to help rather than to hurt. That is a question for which there are no simple answers and one that deserves thoughtful debate and consideration. But always, within such a debate, we should ensure that the views of young people are listened to and that their needs and wishes are respected.
[quote=“Arseboxin”]The problem with reporting suicides openly is the fact that they have attributed it to the phenomenon known as ‘clusters’. This is why often families and media agencies/suicide charities are reluctant to report them, for fear of putting ideas as such into (especially) young people’s minds - and especially so if it’s a ‘celebrity’ in case of imitation suicides. It’s a double edged sword
One of my brothers best friends took his own life two years ago and we we really worried about him and his friends for a while. Thankfully they’ve taken the other route and now campaign and raise funds for a suicide charity that are shamefully underfunded, and have held sessions in the club for the younger members. It’s a great charity btwhttp://www.pieta.ie/[/quote]
The clusters thing is a concern alright but really I think those close to the person are going to know it was suicide anyway. Hiding the facts just sort of sweps the problem under the carpet, far better to address the problem and force people to acknowledge the widespread nature of suicide I think.
RT went the first half hour of Morning Ireland this morning without mentioning the word suicide and I don’t think it was helpful at all. People who didn’t know it was suicide would surely have suspected it from the language used and it just reinforces the stigma and the secrecy around the problem. Imagine nobody ever mentioned a rape had taken place… it would spiral out of all control.
Crisis talks over wave of suicides at company
The French government has summoned the chief executive of France Telecom to a crisis meeting today amid claims that workplace stress is responsible for a series of suicides at the telecommunications group.
With unions blaming the deaths on a malaise caused by restructuring, Didier Lombard will be asked to produce an action plan when he meets Xavier Darcos, the work minister.
The move comes after 23 suicides and 13 attempted suicides among France Telecom staff since February last year. The latest was a woman of 32 at Orange, the operator’s mobile unit, who threw herself from a fourth-floor window at her office in Paris last week.
Her action came after a meeting to discuss reorganisation of her customer service department, adding weight to union claims that change in the working environment is one of the reasons behind the spate of suicides.
Their fears were fuelled when a technician, aged 48, stabbed himself during a meeting last week at which he was told to take up a new post. He is now recovering.
Concern deepened last night when a manager in a customer service department in Metz in eastern France was found unconscious on the workplace floor after taking barbiturates in an apparent attempt to take his life, French radio reported.
Critics said that desperation was spreading in the company as it pushed ahead with modernisation designed to make it internationally competitive. ( The Times, London)
Been at two suicide funerals recently. An absolutely beautiful 19 year old girl and believe it or not a 12 year old young fella. Hard to believe that a 12 year old would even countenance something like that but fuck me that was a fairly hard one to face the parents.
I dont know what it is about this country but even watching something like Pure Mule the other week depressed me to my core, because I know so many fellas like Scoby Donoghue, stuck in a gluepot of a small town in a job with no prospects no prospect of a relationship and no real friends, just fucking drinking buddies. Once you get into that rut of working monday to friday drinking friday to sunday depression til thursday from the drink and back to square one on the friday it is fair hard to get out of it.
When I meet these lads who would have been great friends when we were younger playing ball or whatever I can see the resentment in them. They are embarrassed by their inertia but cant make a move to change it. Despite what NCC would say the GAA is probably the best suicide prevention group in the country, it keeps so many lads entertained and active during the week and is a massive social outlet for fellas who, in a country area, mightnt meet fellas from one end of the week to next.
Unfortunately I dont think there is any easy answers to this problem. Breaks my heart thinking bout the good lads and thier families I knew who couldnt face the humdrum any more.
Cant find it now but Noelie O Leary had a great interview on the topic in one of the sunday papers a few years ago, fair sad story
[quote=“dancarter”]
Noelie O Leary had a great interview on the topic in one of the sunday papers a few years ago, fair sad story[/quote]
FOR a moment Noel O’Leary was sure he’d got away with it. It was down in Tralee on a shitty wet Saturday night, Kerry had just beaten them, and towards the end he’d snapped. The Kerry boys had been winding him up all night and then Tomas O Se kicked the ball at him and O’Leary had gone and eyeballed him, lashed out, and picked up his second yellow card for his troubles. As he was walking into the dressing room tunnel, Billy Morgan tapped him on the back and halfgrinned, “Well done, Noel!” At that, inwardly, O’Leary smiled too. Someone understood. If anyone could, it was Billy. The sight of that green and gold jersey, the passion, the fury; sure he knew all about it himself.
And then? Well then when they were inside, Morgan closed the door and proceeded to give his wing back, as O’Leary so eloquently puts it, “an unmerciful fecking”. In front of everyone. He shakes his head and grimaces bashfully at the memory, thought and accusation. Too fiery and volatile . . .
even by Morgan standards. "But he was dead right too, " says O’Leary. “I was a bit mad that night. A rush of blood to the head.”
Admit it. It’s how you know him, perceive him. There mightn’t be a better attacking wing-back left in this year’s championship or anyone on the Cork team more adept at playing that ball into Michael Cussen, but to you, he’s that serial yellow-carder who keeps getting into scrapes. He’ll probably take up Geraghty today and, well, it’s hard to see both of them lasting the distance. But, as Dan might say, if you don’t know him, don’t judge him.
He’s from a place called Cill na Martra, the second smallest parish in the biggest county in Ireland, a few miles outside Macroom, off the road to Ballyvourney, but as a kid he developed a passion for west Cork football and west Cork footballers more than 50 miles down the road. There was Castlehaven and Tompkins and Cahalane. And even though they were junior, there was Urhan and Ciaran O’Sullivan too. He remembers going with his father Donal as a 12-year-old to see them play Midleton in a county junior championship replay in 1992 in Ballingeary.
"I’ll never forget it. The first day Ciaran was awesome. The second day he was having a brilliant game again when one of the Midleton lads turned round and made shit of his nose. Ciaran was down for three or four minutes, blood pissing out of his nose.
Next thing, he gets up, the ball comes in and Ciaran grabs it underneath his own goalpost, goes straight up the centre of the field and shoes the ball straight on the '45 and splits the posts.
My father turns round to me and says, ‘That man will be playing for Cork next year.’" And at that, his son vowed that’s how he’d play for Cork too. Like Cahalane, like Ciaran. Blood and bandages, boy.
And that’s how he played for them as a minor. With passion. Raw passion at times but passion, and when the Cork senior hurlers were presented with their 2000 Munster medals the same night as O’Leary and his colleagues were presented with their All-Ireland minor football medals, Diarmuid O’Sullivan, a two-time All Star even then, made a point of going over to O’Leary to tell him how much he loved the way he played the game.
A year later they were teammates winning an All-Ireland junior medal together, and a year later, on the senior panel, winning a Munster football championship together. O’Leary had to wait until he was 21 to break onto the starting 15 though. When he did, he did with intent.
“I thought, ‘Feck it, a tougher attitude to this setup would be no harm at all. We’ll try not to take any prisoners if we can.’ I suppose I went a bit bald-headed into it though. Did a lot of stupid things.”
Whatever about doing anything stupid, O’Leary managed to do something unique in that 2003 league campaign, picking up a yellow card in each of Cork’s seven league games, and just for good measure, picking up two in the last game against Tyrone. But over the years he’d like to think he’s tempered down that temper.
He’s no longer the wild buck of 2003, though, he’ll admit, some sort of red mist does seem to descend upon him when he encounters that green and gold.
And on days like that, he’s reminded it’s only a game, that there’s more to life. And he’ll agree. Yeah, it’s a game, there’s more to life, but what you must understand it’s that game which has helped him get through the life he’s had.
The first to go was Mark. They were cousins but more like twins; the same age, the same humour who’d “more or less lived with each other; him living up in our place or me down in theirs”. Then, in January of '99, Mark and his girlfriend broke up and all of a sudden he was dead. Suicide.
“It was an awful shock at the time. Because nothing like that had ever happened to us before. But that was my first year with the Cork minors and the football was a great thing to have. It gave me something to turn back to.”
O’Leary and Cork would win that year’s Munster final, inspired by a magical display from another dynamic wing back called Tom Kenny, but a few weeks before the following year’s Munster final, tragedy struck again.
This time it was Benny, his best friend.
"Benny, " he smiles, "Benny was a gas man. Strange, he had no interest in football but we had a bit of an old business going there. We bought a quad-bike between us, spraying weeds and spreading manure on farms for farmers. A couple of weeks before we played Kerry, there were about 13 or 14 of us out the back at home. Benny was spinning around on the bike. And feck it, it was a case of the two of us getting too used to that bike; we’d wear no helmets or anything like that, you know. And sure, whatever way he went across this little slope in the field, didn’t the bike turn and fall on top of him.
“At the start we were saying to ourselves, ‘This man is going to hop up now any second’, because he was a bit of a joker, like. But we went over, and Jesus, when we looked at him he had gone blue in the face. Myself and my brother Ciaran tried to clear his mouth but it was no good.” By the time the ambulance had hit Macroom, Benny was gone.
Again football offered some measure of solace and that summer Cork went on to claim Munster and then the All Ireland. O’Leary’s eyes light up at the memory of it and old teammates. Some of them you’ve heard of: Masters and McMahon, the latter of whom will play with him in Croke Park today; Conrad Murphy, who was the best of the lot of them; Kieran ‘Hero’ Murphy from Erins Own. But then there were others who you mightn’t have heard of. Paul Deane, Dinny O’Hare; “maybe not the most skilful but hard men and great lads as well.” Only in the last year or two with the seniors, has he experienced a team chemistry and bond like the boys of that summer enjoyed. It was the time of their lives and should have been the year of their lives, but before 2000 was out it had been the worst of O’Leary’s.
He’ll never forget the game that was on the box that day: Glenflesk and Nemo in the Munster club final, and himself and the father watching Moynihan and Johnny Crowley trying to win it nearly on their own. But as the day and game went on, his mother was becoming increasingly anxious. Ciaran, Noel’s 17-year-old brother, had yet to come home. There was no word from him or of him. Noel and his younger brother, Donal Og, told her to relax, reminding her that it wouldn’t be the first time he’d have stayed over at a friend’s. After the game was over though, there was still no word. They’d phoned Ciaran’s girlfriend who he’d visited the previous night and she’d said he’d gone home.
“The father was saying then, ‘God, maybe he was drunk coming home and fell somewhere. Donal Og, go into the shed and get our wellingtons and we’ll go to the fields and look for him.’” Donal Og went into the shed only to find Ciaran already there. Same story as Mark. Seventeen. Just finished with the girlfriend. Gone.
"Definitely what happened to Benny was a big part of it. Ciaran was there when it happened and he used to get upset about it. He’d always be on about it at home. But in saying that, you wouldn’t have taken much notice of it. I mean, it was natural enough he was upset about it.
“I think it was a pure spur-of-themoment thing. It and drink. In most of these cases that’s what it is; a spur-ofthe-moment decision brought on by the drink. Looking back, Ciaran wouldn’t have been the best to take drink. He was only 17, a bit of a wild lad but a good lad, but you could see that he used to get upset after drink.”
That’s why he’d tell anyone: know the people who don’t react well to it.
Be there to tell them the one that’s one too many, especially when that one might be the first. Be there to say hang on, everybody hurts, but it passes. It’s maybe not the normal message or cause advocated by a GAA player, but O’Leary feels strongly about this.
So do his younger brothers, who hardly drink at all.
“A lot of people mightn’t like talking about this, shy away from talking about it, but it’s happening every day in other homes. People might learn from it. I have no problem talking whatsoever about it. Or Benny or Mark. It was an unbelievable run for us at the time, but it happened. It’s a big part of who I am.”
There’s little O’Leary isn’t upfront about. At times he might sound all bashful like Paidi O Se just like he plays like a young Paidi O Se but the ‘Yerrah’ response is not for him. There is a refreshing honesty as well as affability about him. In the tree surgery business he set up a few years ago, beating around the bush is kept to a minimum. It’s the same in conversation. He cuts through the bullshit.
The Cork under 21 team management during what he now calls the lost years, for instance. “It was the worst set-up I’ve ever seen. Selectors turning up late; poor locations, no tactics before games, no buzz in the camp. For them three years we didn’t even threaten to win an All Ireland when we had the players to do it. In 2003 we ended up losing to Waterford. Rightly so. That was the game they parachuted Setanta [O hAilpin] and [John] Gardiner in for before the [senior AllIreland] hurling final. No disrespect to the two lads but they never trained with us that year while they were taking the places of fellas who’d trained all year. Sure that’s not a team.”
He’ll accept his discipline could be better too. Okay, he doesn’t think he should have been suspended for the Louth game this year, because as he showed the guys in Croke Park, that time in the Munster final Paul Galvin was holding and twisting his ankle . . .
“I’m not saying he was doing it intentionally” . . . and O’Leary was only trying to wriggle his way free. Then you push him on it.
“That was all though, Noel. You were just trying to get him off you.”
“That’s right.”
“Genuinely, Noel.”
He smiles. “Well, maybe there was a slight bit of a kickout too.”
He’ll be straight up about the support of the current senior team as well, or lack of it, to be precise. Last week Waterford lost their fourth AllIreland semi-final in the Justin McCarthy era and a country, let alone, county, nearly went into mourning.
Lose today and the Cork footballers will likewise have lost four semi-finals in six years, and yet the masses on Leeside will be indifferent to their plight. O’Leary is close friends with some of the hurlers, especially O’Sullivan, but as much as he wishes them well, at times he can’t help but be envious of them.
"It’s unbelievably disappointing, our support, even if we’re long over it now. The hurlers get caught in a sticky situation and are down three points and the crowd roars them on which is a huge help to a team. We go three down and people just turn their asses to us. That’s when we need them.
There’s absolutely no doubt about it, if we win this All Ireland, it’ll be for this panel of players and management team. I honestly think there’s only about two or three hundred genuine Cork football supporters out there."
He’d love to win it for Morgan ("His head for the game is unbelievable.
And his passion. Even watching him giving speeches and seeing the veins start to pop; you’d be proud to play for a man like him"). For old teammates like Ciaran O’Sullivan who was probably as good as Moynihan but never seen as such because he never won that Celtic Cross. But as he says, mostly for the men around him each night in training. That’s what it’s about.
Right now, they’re near and yet so far. They’re only one game away from a final but the way they’ve been playing they seem a lot further away than that. Maybe the hurling snobs have a point; the team hasn’t played with any flair; it’s yet to cast off its inhibitions.
He’ll admit that. But the 2000 minors should have lost in the first round to Clare. They went on and won the All Ireland. That team and this team have a lot in common. This crowd could go all the way too.
“Look, there’s no doubt that if we play like we did the last day against Sligo there’s no hope for us against Meath. They’re playing a nice brand of football and seem to be able to find space all the time while we seem to be getting clogged up an awful lot. But we know the football we’re capable of and the football we’ve played. It’s going to come out some time again, hopefully on Sunday. [James] Masters is going to be a loss alright but the man himself, pure gentleman, said it openly in the papers that his injury gives lads like [Daniel] Goulding a chance and they might burn up Croke Park.”
He’ll feel for Masters today. This is about the only year O’Leary himself has been free of injury. A week after his championship debut against Limerick in 2003, his old buddy Diarmuid O’Sullivan gave him a clatter in a county championship game. O’Leary played on but he had taken the Ciaran O’Sullivan spirit to extremes . . . his ribs had been cracked, something that kept him out of the qualifier defeat to Roscommon. The following year in Killarney his medial ligament gave way; the following year against the old enemy in Croke Park himself and Conor McCarthy collided and he had to be taken off, and then last year, a viral infection from a very costly halfhour of sunbathing in La Manga kept him out of the starting line-up for the summer.
But he kept coming back, kept bouncing back up, kept walking on.
He knows no other way.
[quote=“dancarter”]
Cant find it now but Noelie O Leary had a great interview on the topic in one of the sunday papers a few years ago, fair sad story[/quote]
rememembr it…think it was the sunday of all-ireland final when kerry hammered cork…he talked about his brother and his cousin i think it was as well…there was a stunning girl out my way recently married who committed suicide a few months back…set herself on fire in a car or something to that effect…shocking
My mates mother did something similar last year, its all just mad. Dans right about the GAA, and in fairness Rugby and soccer these days as well. Sport is vital in rural areas.
Turned on Sky Sports news at 8am this morning - one of the headlines was on Sutherland and how he was found hanged in his apartment. The reporter didn’t mince his words. He didn’t mention suicide but left no-one in any doubt. It’s completely wrong but I’m glad they had the balls to report it like that
Heard it reported in that exact manner a few places Mac.
Any of them Irish Dan?
A nurse in the regional hospital told my mother a few months back that after one particular weekend there were 4 bodies in the morgue in the hospital as the result of suicide and there was 7 in the week.
Fella on Newstalk last night for one, stuck in mind coz it was an unusual phrase I thought.
Thats good to know Dan.
There was a spate of them in the Maynooth / Clane area earlier this year. About 5 or 6 in 2 weeks and all teenagers. Some weird shit went on whereby every one of them was planned and they had some bebo or facebook group where they talked about how they were going to do it. Don’t know the full facts and don’t think they were ever reported nationally. The secondary schools in the area in fairness to them brought in counsellors, support services and did everything they could to try and make sure no-one else took their own life. It’s the like the sort of thing you’d see in a film, not on your own doorstep.
[quote=“Mac”]Thats good to know Dan.
There was a spate of them in the Maynooth / Clane area earlier this year. About 5 or 6 in 2 weeks and all teenagers. Some weird shit went on whereby every one of them was planned and they had some bebo or facebook group where they talked about how they were going to do it. Don’t know the full facts and don’t think they were ever reported nationally. The secondary schools in the area in fairness to them brought in counsellors, support services and did everything they could to try and make sure no-one else took their own life. It’s the like the sort of thing you’d see in a film, not on your own doorstep.[/quote]
Bridgend in Wales had a horrific run of it, as has Midleton in Cork to a lesser extent. Midleton for a long time had this awful tag of having the highest rate in Europe of suicide. Major major drug problem there in the late 90’s.