Thatcher is gone

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/periscope/the-truth-is-margaret-thatcher-likely-ordered-the-pat-finucane-murder----british-can-never-reveal-the-truth-about-the-killing-of-civil-rights-lawyer–183328851.html

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The truth is Margaret Thatcher likely ordered the Pat Finucane murder – British can never reveal the truth about the killing of civil rights lawyer[/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]

[SIZE=17px]by [/SIZE][SIZE=14px][B]Niall O’Dowd[/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The latest British inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane is again leaving massive questions unanswered.

The Guardian newspaper editorial headline said it best; “Pat Finucane murder: collusion, contrition, but not the whole truth.”

My strong belief is that the whole truth is that Margaret Thatcher ordered the Pat Finucane murder on February 12, 1989.

That is the key reason that no British Prime Minister will ever allow a public inquiry into the killing of the Belfast civil rights lawyer gunned down in front of his wife and children at his home.

He was shot 14 times while his widow, Geraldine, who was injured, tried to save him.

His only offense was to defend suspected IRA men and women too well in their court hearings.

I am not at all surprised that David Cameron uttered words of regret and then refused a public inquiry after the Da Silva report was issued yesterday.

Geraldine Finucane, a woman of immense courage,called it for what it was.

“This report is a sham. This report is a whitewash. This report is a confidence trick dressed up as independent scrutiny and given invisible clothes of reliability. Most of all, most hurtful and insulting of all, this report is not the truth,” she told reporters afterwards.

Read more: Inquiry into death of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane shows ‘shocking levels of collusion’

She knows what the truth is. The order to kill her husband came all the way from the top and David Cameron or any other British Prime Minister can never allow that truth to be revealed.

He can’t admit the British kill civil rights lawyers, can he?

Patrick Finucane was bringing the case of the Gibraltar 3, three IRA members shot dead in cold blood in March 1988, to Europe, which was going to be a massive embarrassment for Thatcher, who very likely gave the order for them to be shot dead also.

That court later found the three had been shot unlawfully. They had their hands up in surrender when they were shot down.

Finucane was doomed by a top government official. A member of Thatcher’s government Douglas Hogg, a Home Office minister, stood up in the House of Commons three weeks before Finucane was murdered and stated that some lawyers in Northern Ireland were “unduly sympathetic” to Irish Republicans.

He was directly referring to Finucane and signaling the killers to go ahead.

The new inquiry shows that MI5 was perfectly aware of the Finucane murder plot as were the RUC Special branch.

The Stevens inquiry into the Finucane killings stated, “My Enquiry team also investigated an allegation that senior RUC officers briefed the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the Rt Hon Douglas Hogg QC, MP, that ‘some solicitors were unduly sympathetic to the cause of the IRA.”

Mr Hogg repeated this view…and the Enquiry concludes that “the Minister was compromised.”

In this latest enquiry, Sir Desmond Da Silva wrote, “My review of the evidence relating to Patrick Finucane’s case has left me in no doubt that agents of the State were involved in carrying out serious violations of human rights up to and including murder.”

Those agents did not act alone, they did so on orders from on high – all the way to 10 Downing Street.

Thatcher’s reaction to the finding that her minister was responsible for the death of a lawyer?

She promoted him to Minister for Agriculture, all the better to keep him quiet.

Hogg was not alone in fingering Finucane of course. It went much higher in the government, all the way to the top.

It was a time when Thatcher apparently believed she could win the war if only those pesky lawyers would stop getting guilty terrorists off. She also faced massive embarrassment in Europe over the Gibraltar killings.

The killing was sanctioned and carried out by the British state. Of all the crimes committed in Northern Ireland, the Finucane murder is the one which successive British government, of whatever hue, have most resisted investigating.

Pat’s problem was that he was too good at his job of defending Irish men and women arrested for alleged crimes against the state.

He had to be got rid of. The leader of the gang that killed him was a British special branch agent named Tommy Lyttle. The man who confessed to being the Ulster Defense Association hit man was Ken Barrett, also a special branch agent.

The UDA man who supplied the gun was William Stobie, also a special branch agent. He was killed by the UDA, by a British agent in 2001, when he threatened to tell the truth about what happened to Pat Finucane.

Hogg and Thatcher might as well have been in the room when the gun went off fourteen times - they were just as culpable. The naming was the equivalent of painting a target on Finucane’s back - everyone knew who Hogg meant.

The British government had made their preference known.

And all the whitewash in the world will never remove the truth about what happened to Pat Finucane

[/FONT][/SIZE]

John Sargeant hinted at something similar on the RTE News yesterday. He said she was extremely feminine and was also dressed to the nines. She looked at you as if to say ‘look at me’. Extraordinary.

Heard some bloke years ago talking about interviewing her and said that the hairs on her legs were protruding through her tights. That ain’t very feminine.

Margaret was persona non grata in inner city Liverpool (which is essentially a socialist city) a long time before the Hillsborough disaster. She was an easy scapegoat for the inadequacies and shortcomings of the Sheffield and South Yorkshire police. Out in the suburbs of Liverpool, the Tories prospered in certain parts under her leadership. Indeed even in 1992 under John Major, when Hillsborough was very fresh in the memory, the Tories held all their seats in the suburbs and actually I think gained one or two. [SIZE=15px][FONT=Calibri] [/FONT][/SIZE]

While the terraces at Anfield may have been staunchly Labour supporting, the irony was that Liverpool dressing room of the 1980’s was a bastion of support for the Conservative and Unionist Party. Indeed two of the Scots, Graeme Souness and Kenny Dalglish were the cheerleaders in chief. I can recall reading a piece from Michael Robinson some time back in which he stated he was the only Labour Party supporter in that Anfield dressing room.

Is his voice getting high pitched and wobbly as he is getting more excited? Manuel Zeleya could learn a thing or two from that wum.

[quote=“Sidney, post: 756984, member: 183”]http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/periscope/the-truth-is-margaret-thatcher-likely-ordered-the-pat-finucane-murder----british-can-never-reveal-the-truth-about-the-killing-of-civil-rights-lawyer–183328851.html

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The truth is Margaret Thatcher likely ordered the Pat Finucane murder – British can never reveal the truth about the killing of civil rights lawyer[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial][SIZE=17px]by [/SIZE][SIZE=14px][B]Niall O’Dowd[/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The latest British inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane is again leaving massive questions unanswered.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The Guardian newspaper editorial headline said it best; “Pat Finucane murder: collusion, contrition, but not the whole truth.”[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]My strong belief is that the whole truth is that Margaret Thatcher ordered the Pat Finucane murder on February 12, 1989.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]That is the key reason that no British Prime Minister will ever allow a public inquiry into the killing of the Belfast civil rights lawyer gunned down in front of his wife and children at his home.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]He was shot 14 times while his widow, Geraldine, who was injured, tried to save him.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]His only offense was to defend suspected IRA men and women too well in their court hearings.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]I am not at all surprised that David Cameron uttered words of regret and then refused a public inquiry after the Da Silva report was issued yesterday.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Geraldine Finucane, a woman of immense courage,called it for what it was.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]“This report is a sham. This report is a whitewash. This report is a confidence trick dressed up as independent scrutiny and given invisible clothes of reliability. Most of all, most hurtful and insulting of all, this report is not the truth,” she told reporters afterwards.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Read more: Inquiry into death of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane shows ‘shocking levels of collusion’ [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]She knows what the truth is. The order to kill her husband came all the way from the top and David Cameron or any other British Prime Minister can never allow that truth to be revealed.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]He can’t admit the British kill civil rights lawyers, can he?[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Patrick Finucane was bringing the case of the Gibraltar 3, three IRA members shot dead in cold blood in March 1988, to Europe, which was going to be a massive embarrassment for Thatcher, who very likely gave the order for them to be shot dead also.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]That court later found the three had been shot unlawfully. They had their hands up in surrender when they were shot down.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Finucane was doomed by a top government official. A member of Thatcher’s government Douglas Hogg, a Home Office minister, stood up in the House of Commons three weeks before Finucane was murdered and stated that some lawyers in Northern Ireland were “unduly sympathetic” to Irish Republicans.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]He was directly referring to Finucane and signaling the killers to go ahead.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The new inquiry shows that MI5 was perfectly aware of the Finucane murder plot as were the RUC Special branch.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The Stevens inquiry into the Finucane killings stated, “My Enquiry team also investigated an allegation that senior RUC officers briefed the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the Rt Hon Douglas Hogg QC, MP, that ‘some solicitors were unduly sympathetic to the cause of the IRA.”[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Mr Hogg repeated this view…and the Enquiry concludes that “the Minister was compromised.”[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]In this latest enquiry, Sir Desmond Da Silva wrote, “My review of the evidence relating to Patrick Finucane’s case has left me in no doubt that agents of the State were involved in carrying out serious violations of human rights up to and including murder.”[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Those agents did not act alone, they did so on orders from on high – all the way to 10 Downing Street.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Thatcher’s reaction to the finding that her minister was responsible for the death of a lawyer?[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]She promoted him to Minister for Agriculture, all the better to keep him quiet.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Hogg was not alone in fingering Finucane of course. It went much higher in the government, all the way to the top.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]It was a time when Thatcher apparently believed she could win the war if only those pesky lawyers would stop getting guilty terrorists off. She also faced massive embarrassment in Europe over the Gibraltar killings.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The killing was sanctioned and carried out by the British state. Of all the crimes committed in Northern Ireland, the Finucane murder is the one which successive British government, of whatever hue, have most resisted investigating.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Pat’s problem was that he was too good at his job of defending Irish men and women arrested for alleged crimes against the state.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]He had to be got rid of. The leader of the gang that killed him was a British special branch agent named Tommy Lyttle. The man who confessed to being the Ulster Defense Association hit man was Ken Barrett, also a special branch agent.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The UDA man who supplied the gun was William Stobie, also a special branch agent. He was killed by the UDA, by a British agent in 2001, when he threatened to tell the truth about what happened to Pat Finucane.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Hogg and Thatcher might as well have been in the room when the gun went off fourteen times - they were just as culpable. The naming was the equivalent of painting a target on Finucane’s back - everyone knew who Hogg meant.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The British government had made their preference known.[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]And all the whitewash in the world will never remove the truth about what happened to Pat Finucane[/FONT][/SIZE]

[/quote]

[SIZE=15px][FONT=Calibri]Predictable ramblings and conspiracy theories from O’Dowd. As I alluded to yesterday, one very positive aspect of Margaret’s Irish legacy that is being overlooked totally is her role in reducing the dole queues in this country. Niall O’Dowd of all people as an 80’s immigrant should be focussing on this as he would be if it were a US politician who had passed away. The role of Margaret’s government in feeding the masses of Irish immigrants during the 80’s never gets the same coverage as the US. In reality Margaret should stand alongside the likes of Donnelly, Morrison, Ronald and Ted Kennedy in this regard.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Possibly the saddest thing of all is the demise of the once relatively interesting poster Evo / Hugo / Manuel. Rebrand required.

[quote=“Manuel Zelaya, post: 756987, member: 377”]Margaret was persona non grata in inner city Liverpool (which is essentially a socialist city) a long time before the Hillsborough disaster. She was an easy scapegoat for the inadequacies and shortcomings of the Sheffield and South Yorkshire police. Out in the suburbs of Liverpool, the Tories prospered in certain parts under her leadership. Indeed even in 1992 under John Major, when Hillsborough was very fresh in the memory, the Tories held all their seats in the suburbs and actually I think gained one or two.

While the terraces at Anfield may have been staunchly Labour supporting, the irony was that Liverpool dressing room of the 1980’s was a bastion of support for the Conservative and Unionist Party. Indeed two of the Scots, Graeme Souness and Kenny Dalglish were the cheerleaders in chief. I can recall reading a piece from Michael Robinson some time back in which he stated he was the only Labour Party supporter in that Anfield dressing room.[/quote]

What a load of dribble… I asked you about Hillsborough and the cover up… Youre telling me she didn’t sign off on it or wasn’t aware that the police fucked up?

Also, why did she call Nelson Mandela a terrorist ?

[quote=“ChocolateMice, post: 756993, member: 168”]
Also, why did she call Nelson Mandela a terrorist ?[/quote]

Because the African National Congress was founded as a peaceful non-violent organisation in the early years of the twentieth century but under Mandela’s leadership in the late 1950’s commenced a terrorist campaign of violence, a campaign which continued until the early 1990’s.

:smiley:

Rubberbandits

Margaret Thatchers ashes should be compressed into a piece of coal. For the sheer Irony of it.

[SIZE=6]Those guys :clap: [/SIZE]

Funny how that seemed to happen in the colonies of the empire.

Right… He should have fallen in line like a good kaffa is it? :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Um04WlHDNU

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]One of the real ironies when it comes to a debate on somebody like Thatcher or Reagan is that many of the type of pro-deregulation, anti welfare state, free market zealots who rail against “the state” are often the very ones who make excuses for the despicable things that Thatcher and Reagan did, because they had the “legitimacy” of “the state” behind them. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]The “legitimacy of the state” enabled Thatcher to facilitate the importation of arms from apartheid South Africa for use by Loyalist death squads. The “legitimacy of the state” enabled the British government to particpate in some of the most brutal massacres of the troubles - the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Miami Showband massacre etc. Niall O’Dowd has written about how it’s very likely that Thatcher personally authorised the murder of Pat Finucane. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]The “legitimacy of the state” allowed Thatcher’s government to authorise the training and arming of the Khmer Rouge (the Nazis of Asia) when they were driven into exile. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]The “legitimacy of the state” allowed Thatcher’s government to supply Hawk aircraft and Scorpion tanks to Suharto, “one of our best and most valuable friends”, to massacre innocent East Timorese civilians. [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]John Pilger asked Alan Clark, who under Thatcher was Britain’s minister responsible for supplying Suharto with most of his weapons:[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]"“Did it bother you personally that you were causing such mayhem and human suffering?"”[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]"“No, not in the slightest",” Clark replied. ““It never entered my head.””[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=13px][FONT=Verdana]I guess “the legitimacy of the state” means it wasn’t terrorism, wasn’t assistance in committing genocide, at least for the type of defenders of Thatcher I mentioned at the top of my post.[/FONT][/SIZE]

So you wouldn’t go down on her then?

Well I did on your sister…

Sandys Hill in Newry

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHafwNnCcAEocXl.jpg:large

Know your place.

The irony is that Mandela pretty much sold out his people.

Apartheid ended in the main, not because of the “benevolence” of the likes of de Klerk, but because it had damaged South Africa as a place for international capital to do business, and thus the only way for the white elite to maintain its place was to “go legit” as far as the international community was concerned and allow the blacks a small piece of the pie. The key to ending apartheid as far as the whites were concerned was that South Africa would go neo-liberal and be a place where international capital could do as it pleased.

The ANC made loads of promises about how things were going to be so different when they got into power, about how mines would be nationalised and land redistributed etc. The “Freedom Charter” was the ANC’s manifesto throughout apartheid and Mandela said “it was inconceivable” that it would ever be abandoned. The reality is that they entirely gave in to the economic demands of the apartheid regime. Thabo Mbeki who was president after Mandela exclaimed “Just call me a Thatcherite”, when he was finance minister in 1996. Things stayed pretty much the same for the vast majority of blacks. But for the elite of the ANC, the likes of mining magnate Cyril Ramaphosa, now the richest man in South Africa (you might remember him from those IRA arms inspections around 2001) things are just great. They aren’t so great for the workers in those mines, 34 of whom were massacred when they went on strike last August due to theappalling conditions they work had to work in. Ramaphosa called them “criminals”.

Mandela was a great man during the struggle, he wasn’t so great when he got into power. And the ones that came after him have been utterly disastrous.

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I really hope Damien Dempsey records an anti Margaretb Thatcher song on his next album.

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s480x480/64373_10201009275338844_1299457248_n.jpg