Just quickly on initially points.
I understand what happened then. It was wrong. Understand why it happened, but it does not get away from what was allowed happen.
Iām more appalled at the defending of it now and the silence.
What was allowed happen?
I could stroll into any community sports club tonight and hand out leaflets.
Itās hard to figure out Brolly alright. At this stage one might think he is merely a controversialist who comes up with a position on any given week and then uses his debating skills, honed by his profession as a barrister, to argue it.
Letās have a debate about personal responsibility hereā¦
+1.
Words and symbols matter.
Changing names would be a huge help.
Unfortumately you will probably have to wait for the children at least of these men to die off before it is palatable
I donāt think, honestly, that Croke park could, or should, comment on this specific issue.
It is not in their remit, without proof, which, letās face it, there never will be.
It doesnāt mean it isnāt true, and the poor victim obviously believes that it is. Itās pretty clear to me at least, that the club failed to officially stand beside him before, during, or, most sadly, after the event, but Iām loth to believe that the bomb was in any way sanctioned or condoned by the broader club membership.
Like Bandage and others have said, the actions of the club do need to be taken in the context of the time and the place.
One would have hoped that by now, however, they may have made some official attempt at reconciliation. They are on an impossible situation now, in that if they do so, it will always be judged that they merely reacted to public opinion.
Heffron is, however, the only real victim in all of this. He was blown half apart purely and simply because he elected to try and side with the peace process as he saw it. It was an utterly despicable act, but perhaps the most telling thing in all of it, is that it could have been either republican or loyalist scum who felt justified in targeting him.
As times moved though, the club should have moved with them, but change for many comes dropping slow.
In truth, the truly amazing thing about the six counties is how very very quickly they have moved on, bar a few deluded psychos on either side (I include the dup in this group unfortunately).
Could you?
Its astonishing that down here you would certainly have to ask for permission.
One would think in an even more suspicious place like a Nordie GAA Club this would be monitored.
Of course you are throwing out red herrings now.
This does not absolve the pmayers, the club members and the management who acted so ridiculously childishly and dangerously by isolating Herron. If anything they enhanced the situation.
2001?
Ah here sid.
Joe is of course a controversialist.
He has a lot of excellent views. and also a lot of half baked, poorly thought through ones.
He is clearly a very conflicted individual. Thereās nothing wrong with being conflicted about things, in fact itās often an admirable quality and Iād be very suspicious of anybody who isnāt conflicted about something, but he often makes a very poor job of reconciling these conflicted feelings. To be fair, itās a pretty tough job to do so within the controversialist framework in which he has chosen to write, which by definition demands 100% black and white clarity of opinion.
Perhaps Joe would be better off if he didnāt attempt to treat everything as entirely black and white in the articles he writes.
Yup. Do you think gates are locked and dressing rooms are locked just before and just after training sessions when players are togging in or out?
The IRA are not the type of organisation who go round requesting permission to do what they do.
Some good points.
It doesnāt seem to be cut and dry though, this āmoving onā.
Some have, some have not it seems.
On main point, i think Croke Park should at the very least defend their club Nd show some acknowledgement of the pain of a guy who tried to expand their games into new fields and new demographics.
He was the āvolunteerā they love to blow on about. Yet now they have nothing to say about him???
So you admit the GAA Club was walked all over and the continued silence reinforces that?
Ah here what?
Are you saying that the abolition of Rule 21 was an abolition of any political stance on the part of the GAA and its membership, and an abolition of any aspiration of the GAA that there be a united Ireland?
As far as I know, you donāt have to have a ban on all British security forces in place to aspire to a united Ireland.
Sid, you are being too specious to argue with, even by your usual standards, and thatās saying something.
I donāt. Iām saying anyone can walk into a community sports club and hand out leaflets without the permission of the club and there is little a club can do to be stop being taken by surprise like that. Most sports community clubs donāt take active measures to stop strangers entering their premises. There are no people on gates, there are no people on dressing room doors. I go running around two community areas in Galway, the running track at West side and Cappagh Road Community Park which both hold community clubs.
I could easily walk into the club grounds and distribute leaflets if I wanted. The crux of your argument is non-existent and you have failed to stipulate how this could have been stopped.
Ah if you came into any club i know you would be asked āwho are you?ā And āwhat are you handing out?ā
A GAA cLub is a different kettle of fish compared to a community oark. Especially the night of Senior Training.
Its a farcical comparision and just pure avoidance
Iām making very fair and reasonable points here.
You arenāt even attempting to address them.
This is very much following the pattern of this thread since last night.
Myself, @Bandage, @Nembo_Kid and @Gman have all attempted to debate in an honest and mature manner.
Those who are defending the vilification of the club have not.
Do you think GAA clubs all have bouncers on the doors or something?
Youāre confusing GAA clubs with nightclubs.