[QUOTE=“Sandymount Red, post: 946859, member: 1074”]By developing players you mean “raiding other club’s youth academies”
You’d swear he was a latter day Harry Bassett slugging it out with the big guys the way you are going on. Arsenal have the highest season ticket prices in the league and have a 60,000 seater stadium full every week. He spends an absolute fortune on players wages and has trousered £82 million in 9 years to win 2 FA cups. It’s fucking laughable.
But he has conditioned Arsenal fans minds into believing not winning trophies is successful. I suppose he deserves credit for that.[/QUOTE]
You make it sound so easy, its amazing othe Clubs aren’t doing the same. Football management must a be a doddle at the Club you support, who is that again?
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 946857, member: 2533”]Very good in Europe? When was the last time they came remotely close to winning a European trophy? They are flat track bullies, as soon as they come up against a team of pedigree they will roll over after having their bellies tickled. Arsenal are simply there to make the number. It’s hilarious watching Arsenal fans get all misty eyed watching their team win a devalued cup after scraping over the line against a side 12 places below them in the table.
Wenger was once in charge of a side that was challenging for and winning titles. He’s not just happy to make up the numbers there. I think Arsenal fans have to be the thickest about when they are supporting a manager who constantly poormouths about the resources he has and the lack of fairness in football today when he is the fourth highest paid manager in the world. Wenger would be rightly sacked by an ambitious club, luckily for him the Arsenal board seem very happy with money in the bank than trophies in the cabinet.[/QUOTE]
The last time they came remotely close to winning a European trophy was in 2006 when they lost the Champions League final. They were unlucky to go out to Barcelona in 2011 when Van Persie was sent off. They did well in defeat to Bayern last season. It’s not breathtaking or anything, but they’ve been good in the group stages, generally qualifying without any drama and they don’t tend to get knocked out by minnows.
Wenger was in charge of a side that was challenging for and winning titles before Chelsea and Manchester City were gifted places ahead of them by the benevolence of Arab investors. There wasn’t anything Wenger could do about that. Wenger’s wages have nothing to do with Arsenal’s spending power. He is paid highly because of the guaranteed revenue he has brought to Arsenal. They’ve also benefited from not having to pay him large redundancy payments - while he may earn a decent fee, the outlay of other clubs on paying various managers severance fees means that Arsenal save wages by paying a stable manager more.
We actually made a net profit on transfers last year. You can’t replace the irreplaceable. Spurs don’t have the money to hold onto players like Bale, thems the sad facts. I’d like to think if we moved into the new 60,000 seater we would be able to compete with Arsenal. But at the moment it’s a pipe dream.
Doing the same? Can’t think of many managers who have downsized their fans ambitions from challenging for and winning titles to being content with top 4 finishes and the odd consolation trophy every year while bringing in a paypacket that dwarves that of more successful managers. The fact is there is no way most managers would survive that. Most owners of football clubs are not there for financial gain, moreso they are there for the success - whatever barometer they wish to measure it by - and the important thing is that the clubs is kept afloat, there is no need for financial profit out of the club. The mantra at Arsenal seems to be different where the shareholders expect some sort of financial return from their investment and Wenger is happy to oblige them at the cost of success and he is duly rewarded in his pay packet for this. A driven manager with ambition wouldn’t do what Wenger has done and it has cost him all his star players over the pas 7/8 years (Cole, Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie) - they have stopped been competitive and a force in English football.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946865, member: 1”]The last time they came remotely close to winning a European trophy was in 2006 when they lost the Champions League final. They were unlucky to go out to Barcelona in 2011 when Van Persie was sent off. They did well in defeat to Bayern last season. It’s not breathtaking or anything, but they’ve been good in the group stages, generally qualifying without any drama and they don’t tend to get knocked out by minnows.
Wenger was in charge of a side that was challenging for and winning titles before Chelsea and Manchester City were gifted places ahead of them by the benevolence of Arab investors. There wasn’t anything Wenger could do about that. Wenger’s wages have nothing to do with Arsenal’s spending power. He is paid highly because of the guaranteed revenue he has brought to Arsenal. They’ve also benefited from not having to pay him large redundancy payments - while he may earn a decent fee, the outlay of other clubs on paying various managers severance fees means that Arsenal save wages by paying a stable manager more.[/QUOTE]
And what have they done in the 8 years following that final? I don’t take your second point on board, you don’t have to sack a manager, you just don’t need to renew his contract or wait for him to resign. It’s ironic that Wenger’s salary has continued to increase the longer Arsenal remained trophyless. Of course everything is relative but Wenger has some cheek to keep putting out the line that Arsenal can’t compete with these other clubs and their resources. They have the resources to make him the 4th highest paid manager in the world, they have the resources to compete with these teams, he just doesn’t have ambition and what has been become increasingly obvious in recent years is that his teams are a soft touch and he is an inept tactician. He’s a big overpaid baby whose course has been run for years now.
Liverpool might have used a few different managers to get there but they’ve certainly downsized their ambitions. And Van Gaal will have an easier time next season because United didn’t make the top 4 this season. They’ve donwngraded their ambitions too - bur probably for a shorter term.
Whether most football club owners are there for financial gain or not doesn’t really change whether Wenger has been a good manager. I think Arsenal should be more ambitious in their spending but I don’t think that means Wenger hasn’t been a good manager. You’re arguing that he has accepted mediocrity and financial gain. @Sandymount Red is arguing he has spent a fortune.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946874, member: 1”]Liverpool might have used a few different managers to get there but they’ve certainly downsized their ambitions. And Van Gaal will have an easier time next season because United didn’t make the top 4 this season. They’ve donwngraded their ambitions too - bur probably for a shorter term.
Whether most football club owners are there for financial gain or not doesn’t really change whether Wenger has been a good manager. I think Arsenal should be more ambitious in their spending but I don’t think that means Wenger hasn’t been a good manager. You’re arguing that he has accepted mediocrity and financial gain. @Sandymount Red is arguing he has spent a fortune.[/QUOTE]
If you think he has done a good job relative to the resources he has had then that is a different story. If I was a fan of a club who went from challenging for and winning league titles to being simply there making up the numbers I would be pissed. If this club had the same manager that saw this situation normalised over a 9 year period while that manager rose to being the 4th highest paid manager in the world then I would be incandescent.
Wenger, whether he has been complicit or not has accepted a shift in focus from winning trophies to earning profits. The club are a shadow of the force they once were in English football under him. The board have profited from this, Wenger has profited from this but the fans have endured a pathetic and dismal return in the last 9 years. I don’t think many other managers would have accepted this - most of his star players didn’t accept this outlook and I don’t think you can blame them.
It would matter to me if I was an Arsenal season ticket holder paying the highest prices per game in the league. The last few years have been a massive failure for Arsenal, one fluky FA Cup win doesn’t paper over the cracks.
Wenger is the fourth best paid manager in the world apparently.
But Arsenal do not spend the fourth highest amount of money on managers.
They only pay one manager per season.
Chelsea have to pay at least two usually. So do City. Manchester United will effectively be paying two next season. Spurs have to pay AVB and Sherwood and someone else.
Wenger gets paid a premium by Arsenal for delivering the sort of stability that means he’s not as expensive in the long run.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 946876, member: 2533”]If you think he has done a good job relative to the resources he has had then that is a different story. If I was a fan of a club who went from challenging for and winning league titles to being simply there making up the numbers I would be pissed. If this club had the same manager that saw this situation normalised over a 9 year period while that manager rose to being the 4th highest paid manager in the world then I would be incandescent.
Wenger, whether he has been complicit or not has accepted a shift in focus from winning trophies to earning profits. The club are a shadow of the force they once were in English football under him. The board have profited from this, Wenger has profited from this but the fans have endured a pathetic and dismal return in the last 9 years. I don’t think many other managers would have accepted this - most of his star players didn’t accept this outlook and I don’t think you can blame them.[/QUOTE]
Do you accept that the landscape in England has changed utterly in that time period? He was competing with Manchester United and the likes of Liverpool and Newcastle. He’s seen off the latter two and struggled to match United. But the whole league changed when City and Chelsea were given a free pass to the top of the table and Arsenal were no longer the second best team in England - they dropped to third and then to fourth. They have been overtaken by circumstances mostly outside their control.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946879, member: 1”]
Wenger gets paid a premium by Arsenal for delivering the sort of stability that means he’s not as expensive in the long run.[/QUOTE]
But you’re not. And those season ticket holders seem happy at the moment. Many have been disgruntled with the lack of investment, you seem to be thinking they should be spending less on wages. I don’t think that would go down well.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946879, member: 1”]The second point was tricky to explain:
Wenger is the fourth best paid manager in the world apparently.
But Arsenal do not spend the fourth highest amount of money on managers.
They only pay one manager per season.
Chelsea have to pay at least two usually. So do City. Manchester United will effectively be paying two next season. Spurs have to pay AVB and Sherwood and someone else.
Wenger gets paid a premium by Arsenal for delivering the sort of stability that means he’s not as expensive in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Why are lads surprised that one of the longest serving managers at the highest level of football is also one of the best paid? It would be the same in nearly any other industry or profession