I’m certainly not absolutely ecstatic with Liverpool’s season.
Probably because it is. They play nice football hence are value for money if you are into that kind of thing, and keep the books fairly well balanced by CL qualification year on year, which is, as things stand, the main issue for the top tier clubs. Winning the epl is a nice added bonus, but at least they aren’t a grumpy sugar daddy away from disaster.
If Chelsea and Man City hadn’t bought their way past Arsenal in that timeframe (using completely new investment unrelated to football) then Arsenal would have been the second best team in England over a sustained period. That’s not an easy thing to achieve. Nor is getting top 4 every year, look at how many managers Liverpool went through to strive to achieve what Wenger has at Arsenal, or United this year. Or Spurs gambling money and managers on the same target and falling short. But there are pre-conceived targets that means Wenger is supposed to win leagues while others can aim for fourth.
As Monkey has said, Arsenal have problems and their transfer strategy is questionable. They have spent money but their wages haven’t been high enough for Nasri, Cole and Sagna and the likes. Finishing consistently in the top four is not a God-given right and Wenger deserves praise for achieving that year after year.
Top 4 might be meaningless to a club like Everton who would likely pocket the CL money and make no effort at it. Arsenal have been very good in Europe and fairly unlucky in going out in recent years. Fourth place isn’t a meaningless goal for them, it’s a platform to launch a meaningful European campaign.
88 of the other 91 league clubs would love to have had the last 9 seasons that Arsenal have had.
Only Chelsea, man City and Man United have performed better.
[QUOTE=“Monkey Allen, post: 946789, member: 123”]88 of the other 91 league clubs would love to have had the last 9 seasons that Arsenal have had.
Only Chelsea, man City and Man United have performed better.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by “performed better”. Liverpool have won the Champions League in the last 9 years, surely to fuck you don’t believe that Arsenal’s achievements in the last 9 years are better than that?
We were talking about the 9 seasons since Arsenal last won a trophy. Liverpools CL win was 10 seasons ago.
Fuck, I’m getting old 
[QUOTE=“Monkey Allen, post: 946789, member: 123”]88 of the other 91 league clubs would love to have had the last 9 seasons that Arsenal have had.
Only Chelsea, man City and Man United have performed better.[/QUOTE]
Given Arsenal’s history prior to 9 years ago, I am sure they would be delighted with that.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946783, member: 1”]If Chelsea and Man City hadn’t bought their way past Arsenal in that timeframe (using completely new investment unrelated to football) then Arsenal would have been the second best team in England over a sustained period. That’s not an easy thing to achieve. Nor is getting top 4 every year, look at how many managers Liverpool went through to strive to achieve what Wenger has at Arsenal, or United this year. Or Spurs gambling money and managers on the same target and falling short. But there are pre-conceived targets that means Wenger is supposed to win leagues while others can aim for fourth.
As Monkey has said, Arsenal have problems and their transfer strategy is questionable. They have spent money but their wages haven’t been high enough for Nasri, Cole and Sagna and the likes. Finishing consistently in the top four is not a God-given right and Wenger deserves praise for achieving that year after year.
Top 4 might be meaningless to a club like Everton who would likely pocket the CL money and make no effort at it. Arsenal have been very good in Europe and fairly unlucky in going out in recent years. Fourth place isn’t a meaningless goal for them, it’s a platform to launch a meaningful European campaign.[/QUOTE]
Arsenal spent a decent amount of money last summer.
Exactly, before Wenger took over Arsenal didn’t finish in the top four all that often. He has achieved that 18 seasons in a row.
You are right, Arsenal fans should be delighted with the consistency given what had gone before.
Nobody is disputing that. So did Manchester United. So did Liverpool. So did Spurs (albeit having recouped plenty). Two of those clubs finished in the top four and one of them won a trophy. The two that managed neither felt compelled to change their managers because of this failure.
I think some people think Wenger’s job is no different to Football/Championship Manager where he has a bank balance and can go and spend as much of that as he wants on whatever players he wants and he can pay over the odds as often as he wants as long as he doesn’t go into overdraft. Arsenal work to tight budgets on a sustainable financial path. It’s not exciting, and it’s probably too extremely rigorous, but little or none of that is Wenger’s fault. He could be better at ensuring he has a deeper squad and he might want to be a bit more flexible in his valuation of transfer targets - but he’s only one input into those decisions.
What he has done with his squad is develop a remarkably consistent team over a long number of seasons who are just below title-winning standard in England and a little further below Champions League winning standard (but luck plays a greater role there). That’s not a glamorous achievement but it is elite and would be very difficult to match.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946845, member: 1”]Nobody is disputing that. So did Manchester United. So did Liverpool. So did Spurs (albeit having recouped plenty). Two of those clubs finished in the top four and one of them won a trophy. The two that managed neither felt compelled to change their managers because of this failure.
I think some people think Wenger’s job is no different to Football/Championship Manager where he has a bank balance and can go and spend as much of that as he wants on whatever players he wants and he can pay over the odds as often as he wants as long as he doesn’t go into overdraft. Arsenal work to tight budgets on a sustainable financial path. It’s not exciting, and it’s probably too extremely rigorous, but little or none of that is Wenger’s fault. He could be better at ensuring he has a deeper squad and he might want to be a bit more flexible in his valuation of transfer targets - but he’s only one input into those decisions.
What he has done with his squad is develop a remarkably consistent team over a long number of seasons who are just below title-winning standard in England and a little further below Champions League winning standard (but luck plays a greater role there). That’s not a glamorous achievement but it is elite and would be very difficult to match.[/QUOTE]
Wenger earned 82m in between his last two trophy wins and goes around poormouthing. The guy is a bluffer.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946845, member: 1”]Nobody is disputing that. So did Manchester United. So did Liverpool. So did Spurs (albeit having recouped plenty). Two of those clubs finished in the top four and one of them won a trophy. The two that managed neither felt compelled to change their managers because of this failure.
I think some people think Wenger’s job is no different to Football/Championship Manager where he has a bank balance and can go and spend as much of that as he wants on whatever players he wants and he can pay over the odds as often as he wants as long as he doesn’t go into overdraft. Arsenal work to tight budgets on a sustainable financial path. It’s not exciting, and it’s probably too extremely rigorous, but little or none of that is Wenger’s fault. He could be better at ensuring he has a deeper squad and he might want to be a bit more flexible in his valuation of transfer targets - but he’s only one input into those decisions.
What he has done with his squad is develop a remarkably consistent team over a long number of seasons who are just below title-winning standard in England and a little further below Champions League winning standard (but luck plays a greater role there). That’s not a glamorous achievement but it is elite and would be very difficult to match.[/QUOTE]
It’s a funny old game innit! Let them change manager and potentially fall out of the top 4 and people will be saying how ridiculous they were to let Wenger go. The man has done a top, top job. I’d hate to thing Liverpool supporters were getting uppity here given their one season wonder which does not guarantee they will be top4 again next season.
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946845, member: 1”]Nobody is disputing that. So did Manchester United. So did Liverpool. So did Spurs (albeit having recouped plenty). Two of those clubs finished in the top four and one of them won a trophy. The two that managed neither felt compelled to change their managers because of this failure.
I think some people think Wenger’s job is no different to Football/Championship Manager where he has a bank balance and can go and spend as much of that as he wants on whatever players he wants and he can pay over the odds as often as he wants as long as he doesn’t go into overdraft. Arsenal work to tight budgets on a sustainable financial path. It’s not exciting, and it’s probably too extremely rigorous, but little or none of that is Wenger’s fault. He could be better at ensuring he has a deeper squad and he might want to be a bit more flexible in his valuation of transfer targets - but he’s only one input into those decisions.
What he has done with his squad is develop a remarkably consistent team over a long number of seasons who are just below title-winning standard in England and a little further below Champions League winning standard (but luck plays a greater role there). That’s not a glamorous achievement but it is elite and would be very difficult to match.[/QUOTE]
All the while developing players and selling them off for invariably large profits and starting again. He’s an easy target but any Club would be happy to have him in charge and Arsenal are lucky to have got him when they did, the best business they ever done.
As for Totti mentioning his wages, best of luck to him if Arsenal deem him worthy of such a wage, what do people want him to do, hand it back? FFS sake.
You’re missing the point, quelle suprise.
Oh I see your point alright, I’m just laughing at it
[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 946783, member: 1”]If Chelsea and Man City hadn’t bought their way past Arsenal in that timeframe (using completely new investment unrelated to football) then Arsenal would have been the second best team in England over a sustained period. That’s not an easy thing to achieve. Nor is getting top 4 every year, look at how many managers Liverpool went through to strive to achieve what Wenger has at Arsenal, or United this year. Or Spurs gambling money and managers on the same target and falling short. But there are pre-conceived targets that means Wenger is supposed to win leagues while others can aim for fourth.
As Monkey has said, Arsenal have problems and their transfer strategy is questionable. They have spent money but their wages haven’t been high enough for Nasri, Cole and Sagna and the likes. Finishing consistently in the top four is not a God-given right and Wenger deserves praise for achieving that year after year.
Top 4 might be meaningless to a club like Everton who would likely pocket the CL money and make no effort at it. Arsenal have been very good in Europe and fairly unlucky in going out in recent years. Fourth place isn’t a meaningless goal for them, it’s a platform to launch a meaningful European campaign.[/QUOTE]
Very good in Europe? When was the last time they came remotely close to winning a European trophy? They are flat track bullies, as soon as they come up against a team of pedigree they will roll over after having their bellies tickled. Arsenal are simply there to make the number. It’s hilarious watching Arsenal fans get all misty eyed watching their team win a devalued cup after scraping over the line against a side 12 places below them in the table.
Wenger was once in charge of a side that was challenging for and winning titles. He’s not just happy to make up the numbers there. I think Arsenal fans have to be the thickest about when they are supporting a manager who constantly poormouths about the resources he has and the lack of fairness in football today when he is the fourth highest paid manager in the world. Wenger would be rightly sacked by an ambitious club, luckily for him the Arsenal board seem very happy with money in the bank than trophies in the cabinet.
Quite clearly you don’t as your last post suggests so.
[QUOTE=“myboyblue, post: 946852, member: 180”]All the while developing players and selling them off for invariably large profits and starting again. He’s an easy target but any Club would be happy to have him in charge and Arsenal are lucky to have got him when they did, the best business they ever done.
[/QUOTE]
By developing players you mean “raiding other club’s youth academies”
You’d swear he was a latter day Harry Bassett slugging it out with the big guys the way you are going on. Arsenal have the highest season ticket prices in the league and have a 60,000 seater stadium full every week. He spends an absolute fortune on players wages and has trousered £82 million in 9 years to win 2 FA cups. It’s fucking laughable.
But he has conditioned Arsenal fans minds into believing not winning trophies is successful. I suppose he deserves credit for that.