The Regulator (state employee) v Sean Quinn (bankrupt businessman) + Anglo Irish (state bankrupt ban

Good article surprisingly in the Indo about this. Thankfully with Europe watching on there aint much chance of a Bertie like stroke being pulled to save Quinn.

I used to hugely admire Quinn as a businessman. Lots of the pyramid scheme millionaires did fook all for their home areas but to be fair to Quinn he set up at both sides of the border. But his insurance company were playing by different rules to the competition and even after a record fine continue to. His idiotic in the extreme bet on Anglo has finished him though - how can someone be that stupid really? What I am puzzled about though is how are Anglo involved here. Granted he owes them (namely us) billions and they want to try and get some return on that but Anglo is a state bank. But the Irish taxpayer owns that bottomless pit so are we kind of taking a high court action against ourselves? Guess there wont be any doubt who will be picking up the tab for this event anyway.

Watching this from overseas I have been disgusted by the parish pump activity of Quinn’s supporters in the media (Colm O’Rourke especially)and both GAA county boards. Sure there are 5500 jobs at stake here (not necessarily if Aviva takes them over a good proportion will be retained nationally) and Cavan is a deprived area but the Republic of Ireland’s reputation as an economic entity is pretty much at stake. Does anyone see the bigger picture anymore? Do people actually give a fuck about the country?

quinn is far from a phillanthropist & his employment practicses are sectarian- hopefully the jobs are retained in some form but quinn himself is a quisling

Not many businessmen are philanthropists. That’s not really the issue here

Does he employ black cunts as Manus would put it? Flesh that out.

Read earlier that he set up the actuarial side of Quinn Insurance in mainland Britain. Those skilled jobs would have been better in the ROI. Of course like the IRA traffikers he benefits from having a Border operation for tax purposes and whatever else. But he did build up a fine company only to gamble it away like a degenerate.

I think it is a disgrace to be honest.

Fair enough Quinn creates stacks of jobs, but his financial model has failed due to disastrous business dealings so let him go. It is a pity that jobs will be lost but you can’t go proping up every single business that fails - that surely must be anti competitive for a start not to mention completely and utterly stupid.

Laissez faire.

a number of top businessmen are phillanthropists- quinn isnt so im not sure why people are backing him - he seems like a miserly cunt

Lads is Quinn a tax resident?

Some good coverage in the media yesterday too. Sunday Business Post had a good article on the background ( http://www.thepost.ie/newsfeatures/fighting-for-survival-48527.html ).

There’s a few reasons why the Court case is going ahead:

  1. It’s the Regulator taking it, not the State. For once the regulator is acting with a degree of independence though obviously the politicians are doing their best to remove that.
  2. The Regulator isn’t necessarily against Anglo taking over Quinn. He’s not taking the case to block that course of action specifically. He’s going to court to make sure Quinn has to let go of his insurance company. The Regulator seems to be open to persuasion by Anglo.
  3. Anglo need to pause proceedings so that they can get their hands on Quinn. If administration continues then other people will get their hands on their money first and Anglo is near the bottom of the queue. They reckon that by putting in a bit more to a) ensure its short-term survival and B) giving them ownership then they’ll get what they’re owed in full.

Completely agreed on the disgusting parochial attitude of some people on this matter. And it extends to a good few business commentators too who are saying it’s an issue of balance and jobs v regulation. As Paul Kimmage says… it is in its bollocks. This is a guy who flouted the rules before. He took a massive gamble here and he lost. It’s a shame that it will result in lost jobs more than likely but there’s only one chancer at work here and he should be lambasted and hounded into humuliation as a result of his actions.

why is that relevant?

Some of our better known philanthropists aren’t

they arent phillanthropists then

more bullshit from the bigots in the gga- isnt quinn deeply involved in the gga

FF. GAA. Catholic Church. Ban the corrupt lot of them.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/g...rs-452433.html

GAA County Board to support Quinn Insurance workers

The Cavan GAA County Board has come out in support of the workers at Quinn Insurance.

In a statement, the board said the High Court’s decision to appoint an administrator to the insurer could effect thousands of jobs in the area.

A rally is being organised by Cavan Chamber of Commerce next week to show support for the company.

The Chairman of the County Board Tom Reilly has told Northern Sound radio that the GAA will join the rally in solidarity with the workers.

Quinn Pawns Bow The Knef
What transpired last week over the Financial Regulator’s actions against Quinn Insurance was an attempt to put the interests of a tycoon above the public interest. How little has changed, writes Michael Clifford

Quinn workers protesting last week: the company does not recognise trade unions, so the interests of workers are tied to those of Seán Quinn and his family Last Sunday, the chairman of Fermanagh GAA issued a statement of condemnation. Peter Carty “condemned” the appointment of provisional administrators to Quinn Insurance by the financial regulator, Matthew Elderfield.

“For almost half a century, the Quinn family has been involved in this association, at all levels and in many roles. Never, in our experience, has any member of that family failed to meet his or her commitments to the community and the broader society of Fermanagh and Ireland,” Carty wrote.

“Therefore, despite the contrary assertions of the regulator and the Minister for Finance, we have no hesitation in accepting Seán Quinn’s word that he would pay all his liabilities as they fell due and that there was no risk to policy-holders.”

Also on Sunday, the usually sensible GAA pundit Colm O’Rourke digressed from his musings on the game to enter the fray. “A message for a great GAA man, Seán Quinn: don’t let the bastards grind you down.”

Thus began a week which we must fervently hope went unnoticed by the world outside our little island. For what transpired across swathes of society sent out a message: we believe in crony capitalism. We bow before feudal lords. We have learnt nothing.

What unfolded throughout the week was a campaign to pressurise the financial regulator to reverse or modify his decision on Quinn Insurance. In effect, it was an attempt to place the special interests of Quinn and his family over the public interest. For those who are just back from Mars, this is the business model that has the country in the state it’s in.

On Tuesday, workers from the Quinn Group marched in protest in Dublin and Cavan. There is serious fear among workers about their future. However, they are not independently represented in the group, which doesn’t recognise trade unions. The interests of the workers are thus coupled with the interests of Quinn and his family.

One of the spokespeople for the workers at the protest was Mona Birmingham, who is also a PR officer for the company. Nobody in the protest expressed anger that Seán Quinn had recklessly gambled €3 billion on shares, a gamble that is at the root of the company’s problems. All of the anger was directed at the regulator, who was acting on behalf of the one million policy-holders, the wider public interest and the state’s reputation as a liberal democracy. One poster held aloft read: ‘Financial Wreckulator’.

The most pressing issue among the protesters was the ban on the company signing up new business in Britain and Northern Ireland. After a meeting with the administrators, the latter said they would compile a report for Elderfield on whether it was possible to reopen business in the North.

A letter from the employees was handed in to the Department of Finance. It is understood to have emphasised that Quinn Insurance never had any problem paying debts.

There were no crowd-control issues at the march. An immediate question arises about parity of treatment. What would the reaction be if Anglo Irish Bank workers marched in protest at the hounding of poor SeĂĄnie FitzPatrick. Their jobs have also been placed in peril, and few among them benefited from the reckless management of the institution. Would such a march be met with rotten fruit or stones?

Later on Tuesday, local politicians visited the regulator. Among the group were Rory O’Hanlon, Seymour Crawford, Willie Penrose and Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin. They claimed to be representing the interests of the workers, whose interests are tied to those of the Quinn family. Before the meeting, some of the delegates sought legal advice as to whether meeting the regulator might be deemed as political interference. Politicians interfering in the independent workings of a business watchdog is the stuff of banana republics.

Incapable of distinguishing between right and wrong by themselves, these politicians sought reassurance in the law. Their legal advice gave them the nod. At the meeting, Elderfield was joined by the governor of the Central Bank, Patrick Honohan.

The following morning, Ó Caoláin told RTE that neither he nor the other politicians knew the detail of the financial situation in the Quinn Group.

“What we endeavoured to establish is that the financial regulator has all the relevant information to make the judgement calls that he has to,” Ó Caoláin said. Sometimes it’s difficult to discern what exactly Ó Caoláin is saying.

On Wednesday, there was another protest in Cavan, this one organised by the local chamber of commerce. Before the protest, chamber president Eamon McDwyer was asked on radio whether he was angry at the management in Quinn Insurance.

“I think anger is the wrong word… All you have to do is drive out the road here and see the level of support. All businesses have signed up to support the Quinn group and the Quinn staff.” Again, there was no differentiation between the interests of the Quinn family, the management and the staff. All fates were tied to the persona of Seán Quinn.

At the rally, an earlier radio interview of Quinn was broadcast over loudspeakers. When he uttered the phrase, “My word is my bond”, there was a cheer from the crowd. Nobody expressed the obvious conclusion that Quinn had little thought for local business when he was chasing his losses, gambling on the share price of Anglo Irish Bank.

Quinn also conceded in the interview that the regulator was “technically right” to appoint provisional administrators. A week previously he described the appointments as “one of the biggest errors ever in the history of corporate Ireland”.

Later at the rally, the director of the chamber, Donal Keoghan, delivered a message for Brian Cowen and John Gormley.

“Stand up and be counted and stop using Seán Quinn and his employees for the mistakes made,” he said. He didn’t identify these mistakes. “We will not stand idly by and let this happen as a community,” he roared.

It is understood his anger was directed at the same assorted bastards to whom the football pundit O’Rourke had referred. These bastards are out to “get” Quinn.

The fears expressed for the 3,000 jobs in the area are genuine and require immediate attention. However, blaming the financial regulator is curious, to say the least.

The rally, and the obvious support in the Cavan area for SeĂĄn Quinn, are in sharp contrast to the treatment of the other SeĂĄn who was instrumental in the downfall of Anglo Irish Bank.

Seáns Quinn and FitzPatrick both created thousands of jobs using acumen and hard work. Both lost the run of themselves through greed. Both gambled recklessly – FitzPatrick with the bank’s money, and Quinn with €3 billion of his own.

FitzPatrick is now a pariah; Quinn remains, in the north-east at least, a prince among men. FitzPatrick was a great man for rugby, sponsoring, among others, the national women’s team and the Greystones club. What would be the reaction if the IRFU, or even Greystones, issued a statement condemning the public hounding of poor Seánie? Rage might well manifest itself in the burning down of a clubhouse or two. Yet up north, the GAA in Fermanagh – and Cavan – take it upon themselves to leap to the defence of the local reckless gambler, portraying him as a victim.

On Thursday, word began to seep out that a deal was being put together for Anglo Irish Bank to take control of the Quinn group. The deal is designed to ensure that the €2.8 billion owed to the bank – and, by extension, the citizens – is somehow secured. It would involve the bank throwing another €700 million into the group.

The first item on RTE’s Prime Time that evening was the Quinn story. The company didn’t put anybody forward for interview. At the end of the programme, presenter Richard Crowley announced that Seán Quinn was on the phone. Quinn came on and said his company didn’t need €700 million as was suggested in the earlier segment.

When he finished, Crowley attempted to ask a few questions of his own. Quinn said “hello?”, and then there was a sound like a telephone being recradled. “We appear to have lost Seán Quinn,” Crowley said.

Maybe so, but the sound effects suggested not so much that Quinn was lost as that he had scarpered before Crowley could ask a few pointed questions. Before his current woes, Quinn never gave interviews to the media. Now he is ringing up Prime Time to put the public right about where he stands.

By Friday, the Irish Times was reporting that the director of corporate enforcement and the gardaí might be called in by the regulator, depending on what was uncovered in Quinn Insurance. A planned rally by Quinn workers outside the regulator’s office was cancelled.

The week’s events suggest that, in some areas of society, little has been learnt from the catastrophic collapse of the economy. Special interests will always get a hearing. The interests of 3,000 workers, in genuine fear for their livelihoods, can easily be manipulated. Politicians have no compunction in ignoring any basic form of public morality to shore up their votes. The concern they claimed to harbour for workers should have been expressed directly to Seán Quinn, who bears responsibility for the peril the jobs are now in.

Quinn’s fate as controller of the group he built up will be clearer after tomorrow’s High Court hearing. The immediate future of another man associated with the story is of far more importance to the future of the country. If Matthew Elderfield was to quit in the face of the pressure he was put under last week, the game would be well and truly up. A stark message would go out to the rest of the world: avoid the banana republic, where funny rules apply.

Four possible outcomes to the provisional administration of Quinn insurance

  1. The High Court decides to grant full administration. The administrators would then attempt to put the company on a more secure footing before selling it. This is the most likely option at the moment. It would mean the loss of some jobs, but most would be retained under a new owner. The wider Quinn Group, however, could come under threat without the cash cow of the insurance arm.

  2. The regulator accepts a deal whereby Anglo Irish Bank takes over the running of the Quinn group and a majority shareholding. This could cost the citizens’ bank up to €700 million, and would be undertaken with a view to the bank recovering the €2.8 billion it is owed by Quinn. This would secure most of the jobs in Quinn Insurance and in the Quinn Group.

  3. The High Court or the regulator decide that an injection of capital of €100 million to €150 million to cover solvency is all that is required. The company management goes back to work and Quinn pays off his debt to Anglo Irish from profits the group is projected to make. This is the least likely option at the moment.

  4. The High Court is asked to continue the provisional administration for a longer period.

Whats a knef?

Whats with all the cut and pastes? Is Ncc morphing into Art Foley?

Devil take the hindmost. Let this arrogant cunt sink. His use of a rent-a-mob load of employees to try to sway good corporate governance and proper management of the financial mess this country is in is a disgrace. This Walter Mitty character and his penchant for punting on bank shares is what brought his company to this precipice not the regulator. This local champion stuff from the GAA boards is a joke. Quinn is not above the law, either bring his ratios into line or it’ll be done for him. He can ring Prime Time all he likes.

another fine post from SS**

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Embarrassing stuff. Just goes to show the power money can buy.

The most interesting thing is how revealing is all is of the extent to which the political establishment has been bought out by business in this state. If they are still running to defend them in the light of all that’s happened what does that say about what’s happened over the last ten to fifteen years.

The campaign against Elderfield has really been the lowest point. How about this one from Ned O’Keeffe: “We do not want foreigners in here. Michael Collins, Liam Lynch, Patrick Pearse, James Connolly, would not have those foreigners running our business.”

After the likes of Quinn and Fitzpatrick plunge the country into debt for decades to come the FF gombeens are still shrieking that this is foreigners interfering and we’ll sort it out ourselves. By sort it out ourselves they mean that the public’s gaze needs to be averted while Quinn and the boys use the public coffers like an ATM to cover their own interests. The public can go back to arguing about hunting bans and drinking on Good Friday and those terrible head shops that are the ruination of the country.

Whatever we do we better not bad mouth good men like Sean Quinn, who brought work to places that never had it and bought umpteen sets of jerseys for local football teams. What more do people want?

That’s an I.O.U. sir, that’s as good as money. Go ahead, add them up, it’s all there.

Some people are really embarrassing themselves in this charade. Idiots the lot of them.

This is what society without regulation looks like. You have the likes of Simon Kelly in the tribune a week ago showing outright indignanation that the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick and Sean Quinn should have to explain themselves to the plebs. If the plebs had willingly taken on more debt and bought more of their master’s property the state wouldn’t have had to step in and force the debt on them. Maybe things would never have got this bad.

It should be noted that Michael Clifford has been a rock of sense throughout this whole crisis and his tribune articles are some reassurance that at least some people care about the truth. He’s spot on with the feudal lords reference as well. This is a case of the wealthy and powerful playing their games and fighting their wars and when it all goes to pot it is the peasants who must be levied to pay for it.

Despite all our mordern democratic institutions the complete lack of accountability points to no other conclusion. The old Chomsky maxim that power serves itself holds firm.

Quinn can go fuck himself

fact :clap: