The Rugby Thread (Part 1)

Why have Paddy Wallace in the squad as a replacement outhalf if he plays 12 for Ulster. Why not play him 12 against Argentina, and if he is shite then thats the end of him from the squad. But at least play the lads in their best positions.

The second half was painful. Knock ons, knock ons, knock ons. Brutal.
The most annoying thing was that we could have beaten New Zealand. They were there for the taking. Carter’s missed penalties should have been some kind of catalyst. Not nearly enough guile or aggression.

Agree with nearly everything you wrote there Mac but I’d have Best ahead of Flannery, otherwise your analysis is spot on.

O’Gara had a shocker, no point in pretending otherwise. The ball he got wasn’t great but it wasn’t that bad either. The early chargedown looked offside but you could see it coming a mile off. His penalty kicking too touch was awful, one slice and everything else was outrageously conservative. O’Leary was dealing with the same ball and kicked quite well.

O’Gara did two things of note - the long penalty and the floated pass for Fitzgerald that he failed to hold. Otherwise he was poor, he didn’t impose himself, he didn’t get us moving, he didn’t get any shape at all on the game. Very disappointing.

As for Quinlan - good God! Good game if it wasn’t for the penalties, one would have been excusable but that was just rubbish. I had a brief look at the Sindo yesterday (eyes are still burning) and they gave Heaslip a higher rating than Wallace and reckoned Wallace was very poor. Gobshites. In fairness to Jim Glennon, alongside in the same paper, he said the exact opposite.

Wallace and fitzgerald were probably the only attacking threats we had saturday…the only two lads to get over the gain line on a regular basis…

Its funny, so many criticising O Gara, yet not one has given an alternative to him (the man who said Wallace, I pity you).

Only when O Gara is gone will we realise how much we needed him because there’s fucking nothing else out there.

On another note, some respect for the Bull from Saturday, 33 years of age, being flogged, yet he still does his shift. We’re totally fucked when he moves on.

I’m not advocating Wallace as the long term successor to O’Gara, rather he was the back-up on the bench on Saturday and O’Gara was playing horrendously. My point being that for all the dismissive talk about Wallace he would have had to have been incredibly poor to have equalled O’Gara’s substandard performance. Either Wallace is a viable option or he’s not - but what’s the point of even having him there if the incumbent’s playing so badly and he still doesn’t get the call to come on?

The reason is, that even with no matter how badly O Gara is playing, Wallace still isnt any better than him. His kicking from hand is poor, his tackling is poor, his kicking ratio is poor, and all this, at Magners League level. He would have been eaten up on Saturday.

I realise O Gara was pants Saturday, but Wallace is only on the bench to cover in case of injury. I agree its not fair on him, I’ve actually made the argument here before that I think he’d make a fine inside centre for Ireland, but to pinhole him as a 10 when he patently is not, is a disaster for his career.

Just because there’s no adequate replacement for O’Gara doesn’t mean he’s beyond criticism MBB.

Nobody thinks he’s beyond critism, it’s just i was trying to explain his featuring in the team. Because of the way we play, because of ROG’s position, when Ireland play well, generally he looks brilliant, when we are crap he generally looks poor.
I thought there was worse performances, or at least equally as bad. O’ Driscoll, Best, Heaslip, Quinlan, Dempsey.

When RoG is playing for Munster, firstly (and most importantly) it’s at a lower level to Internationals so he has more time to plan everything, also, he’s nearly always had “crash” centres who take the ball, crash into their opposite number and setup clean ball in the next phase, this gives him time to survey his options and run the game from there

[quote=“caoimhaoin”]Nobody thinks he’s beyond critism, it’s just i was trying to explain his featuring in the team. Because of the way we play, because of ROG’s position, when Ireland play well, generally he looks brilliant, when we are crap he generally looks poor.
I thought there was worse performances, or at least equally as bad. O’ Driscoll, Best, Heaslip, Quinlan, Dempsey.[/quote]

Both O’ Driscoll and Dempsey did their jobs better than O’ Gara did. You’re trying to say that he played poor because of the pressure he was under due to the rest of the team being poor but his kicking from penalties, where he had time to relax and pick his spot, was terrible.

Lads isn’t the issue here that there is currently no viable alternative to O Gara? Everyman can have a sh1te game now and again, but it really ruins it for you when there is no alternative. In retrospect, even with the bad game he was having I wouldn’t have expected Kidney to take him off unless there was another guy there that was as good and who had a trackrecord- imagine the dent to his confidence if he was taken off for Wallace?

Keatley imho is the next contender, Sexton to my mind isn’t cut out for the top level. Time will tell with him though. They should leave both of them playing Magners with their provinces and put them on the summer tour to get some experience at International level. Hopefully come autumn next year, one of them will be a front runner and get a bit of game time in meaningful games. Its likely to be a medium term project unless we discover someone from Southern hemisphere with a granny.

WBY

caoimhaoin your backing of O’Gara is a joke. IMO he should have been taken off at half time he was that poor.
I now believe that you’re the wan whose top he had his hand down a while ago such is your vehement support of his farcical game on Saturday.

I never said he was above criticism, I’d love if we had an alternative, if for no other reason than to push him on. But we don’t, and its embarassing that we dont considering the great legacy we have of out halves.

Its criminal putting Wallace on the bench as a 10 though because he’ll never be introduced because he’s just not up to the job.

[quote=“W.B. Yeats”]
Keatley imho is the next contender, Sexton to my mind isn’t cut out for the top level. Time will tell with him though. They should leave both of them playing Magners with their provinces and put them on the summer tour to get some experience at International level. Hopefully come autumn next year, one of them will be a front runner and get a bit of game time in meaningful games. Its likely to be a medium term project unless we discover someone from Southern hemisphere with a granny.

WBY[/quote]

To be honest I can’t see either being ready for decent test match rugby til the summer/autumn of 2010 and that is if both are getting their games week in week out…both are still very raw and have a lot to learn…Niall O Conner is another lad with a bit of potential but it looks like O Gara is going to be our number one til the 2011 world cup…

Lads O Gara was poor enough saturday alright but you would swear he singlehandedly lost the game for Ireland…Pikeman its easy say take him off at half time but if Wallace came on at half time New Zealand would have added another 15-20 points, its not paddy’s fault but he is not an international standard outhalf and i feel sorry for himhaving to sit on the bench knowing that barring Ronan being knocked unconscious he isn’t going to get seriuos game time in a big game…

IRFU should have went all out a few years ago and made sure Shane Geraghty kept on playing for ireland

So Wallace isn’t international class but a Magner’s League class standard out-half would have been an improvement on Gara’s Provincial Towns Cup type performance on Saturday. Nobody should be beyond being taken off and it’s completely theoretical to say Wallace would have even been worse. At least bring him on when the first choice is playing so awfully.

[quote=“Pikeman”]caoimhaoin your backing of O’Gara is a joke. IMO he should have been taken off at half time he was that poor.
I now believe that you’re the wan whose top he had his hand down a while ago such is your vehement support of his farcical game on Saturday.[/quote]

I’d back him to the hilt, he has won 100 times more games for us than he’s lost, Munster and Ireland. He was poor, but really who wasn’t? I just believe that guys can’t wait for O’ Gara to have a bad game, bit like with Keano. But O’ Driscoll is poor for two years and there hardly a murmour. It’s at times like these that guys get shown up for their bias, and take a chance to have any shot at certain guys, particulary Cork guys. But thats fine, i know we are easy target. Tiocaigh Ar La.

Jesus, it’s laughable the way some people almost take it personally if somebody from their area is criticised. It’s got nothing to do with Cork and I praised Toms O’Leary’s performance already on the thread for example.

Ara shur fuck it, I guess there would have been no harm in tossing Wallace to the wolves. It just pisses me off to see his confidence dirven back by another showing in a position which he is patently not suited for.

What!? Coming from Wexford people on here, hilarious.

the langers are in paranoia overdrive these days