Magdalen laundries being discussed tonight. Sickening shit. Fagan would want to take a gawk. That McAleese report is sickeningly inept whitewash.
The catholic church is fucked up. Everything these orders have in this country should be taken off them and if theyâre left homeless they cam fuck off to Rome or apply for social housing like everyone else.
Fuck off with yourself. Did you ever ask yourself what kind of lives these girls would have had if there were no convents?
+1
Look at the what has happened to the female gender in Ireland since the church lost its power, beach whales, child sluts and tango faced skangers.
You generally seem to be on or near the ball Fagam, how come youâre so spectacularly retarded on this issue?
Because I am old enough to remember way Ireland was like thatâs why. If there werenât convents to hide the families shame at these grls who got into trouble, they would have been pushed over a clifff or stoned to death.
so because the families treated these girls like shit, the church get a free ride to continue in the same vein?
thats a warped rationale imo
Whatever about the Celtic Tiger nonsense but Ireland must have been a truly horrible country for anyone to fall foul of the status quo back in the old days.
Actually I think the nuns ( not the church ) would have treated people better in that situation than their own families. Maybe not much better, but definitely better.
And yes Ireland was a terrifying place for a girl to âget into troubleâ but that would have been a usual thing in peasant agrarian societies.
[quote=âFagan ODowd, post: 739241, member: 706â]Actually I think the nuns ( not the church ) would have treated people better in that situation than their own families. Maybe not much better, but definitely better.
[/quote]
You did read about the abuse the nuns subjected women to, right? Also, why did they have to be imprisoned by the nuns or with their own families? There were a lot of adults that could be out in the world on their own and at least free.
I think youâre either trying to wind people up or just delusional because you have a warped view on this.
I am not delusional. There was no greater stigma or shame for an Irish family than to have an unmarried daughter give birth to a child. Whether the Church created that stigma or the people created it, I donât know but that was the prevalent thinking. There were no single parent families except where there was a widow. It simply was not socially or economically possible for a single parent family to exist. This way of life persisted well into the 1980s. If a girl got pregnant, she either married the father ( if that was legally possible) or she went into a convent to have the baby outside of the gaze of the public and the nuns took it and put it up for adoption. There was one other option, sorry, which was infanticide. However as the Kerry Babies case pointed out, that was legally risky. The report of the Kerry Babies tribunal came out in 1985 and found that although Joanne Hayes had killed her baby, that wasnât the baby that was washed up on the beach, that sparked the whole investigation. So youâd have to conclude that infanticide was reasonably common as late as the 1980s.
Thatâs not to excuse the nuns or the State but to put some context on the times. Itâs all very well people of my generation tut tutting about the nuns, but in reality the whole of society was in on this. There were very few dissenting voices. It was a mad society in hindsight. Pregnancy outside of marriage was the greatest calamity that could befall a family, but you couldnât get contraceptives. You had to go to a doctor to get a prescription for condoms. If you went out with a girl you knew her menstrual cycle better than she knew it herself.
I think everyone knows all that, but it doesnât in any way excuse what happened, or the level of abuse that people were subjected to. On top of this you seem to blame the women for bringing it on themselves to some extent. There were also a significant proportion of women and children that were taken in that hadnât become pregnant.
Iâm not blaming the women at all. I never said that any where so donât be putting words in my mouth. I happen to think though that itâs a bit rich to be blaming the nuns for everything here when the families were every bit as bad and the rest of us knew what was going on. There was a woman on the radio this morning whose mother put her into Stanhope St at age 12 and she was blaming the nuns because she never saw her mother again. She hadnât a word to say against her mother, but it wasnât like the nuns were prowling the streets picking up stray girls. In the vast majority of cases the girls were brought to the convent and left there by their own flesh and blood. Thatâs the reality of it.
This is a smashing point Fagan.
Loads of clowns jumping on the bandwagon with loads to say etc, but no mention of the Families who dumped their kids on the nuns in the first place. Perspective has been fucked out the window on this issue alone.
[quote=âcarryharry, post: 739316, member: 1517â]This is a smashing point Fagan.
Loads of clowns jumping on the bandwagon with loads to say etc, but no mention of the Families who dumped their kids on the nuns in the first place. Perspective has been fucked out the window on this issue alone.[/quote]
True Carry but we are all living in a victim culture now. Everything is always some one elses fault.
i dont agree with everything fagan has to say here but i will defend his right to say it and i must say he is doing a sterling job at making his point here in the face of that populist , daily mail reading idiot glasagusban.
there is one thing i am not clear on tho and that is what was the success criteria for a woman to be incarcerated / admitted to such an institution.
I understand having a baby outside wedlock, would her family have brought her there and if so, after she had the baby what stage was she allowed out ?
i mean it sounds an almost crazy to be thinking that she could not leave of her own free will, who determined that ? and why were women forced to stay?
Does that absolve the nuns of culpability then? No. Does it absolve the state? No.
[quote=âcarryharry, post: 739316, member: 1517â]This is a smashing point Fagan.
Loads of clowns jumping on the bandwagon with loads to say etc, but no mention of the Families who dumped their kids on the nuns in the first place. Perspective has been fucked out the window on this issue alone.[/quote]
What are you on about âclowns jumping on the bandwagonâ? What bandwagon? How has perspective been lost? This is probably the first time this has fully come into the spotlight and the first time it has been put in proper perspective. In fact it is not yet in proper perspective since the official report hardly scratches the surface. Sorry Harry, stupid comment.
Iâll tell you whose fault it wasnât, the people who were locked up in those laundries. That is not victim culture.
[quote=âmickee321, post: 739326, member: 367â]i dont agree with everything fagan has to say here but i will defend his right to say it and i must say he is doing a sterling job at making his point here in the face of that populist , daily mail reading idiot glasagusban.
there is one thing i am not clear on tho and that is what was the success criteria for a woman to be incarcerated / admitted to such an institution.
I understand having a baby outside wedlock, would her family have brought her there and if so, after she had the baby what stage was she allowed out ?
i mean it sounds an almost crazy to be thinking that she could not leave of her own free will, who determined that ? and why were women forced to stay?[/quote]
The nuns determined it. There are accounts of young teenage girls being taken in âbecause they would be a temptation to menâ. There are numerous accounts of girls who escaped or tried to escape being brought back by the gardai.
Would I be right in saying that glasagusban is the only person commenting who has read the report?
Itâs a fairly boring topic so I wouldnât be surprised. They should have got Zonal Marking, Irvine Welsh or someone to write it.
Nice clip of Boyd Barrett getting stuck into Gilmore today in the Dail.
[quote=âcarryharry, post: 739316, member: 1517â]This is a smashing point Fagan.
Loads of clowns jumping on the bandwagon with loads to say etc, but no mention of the Families who dumped their kids on the nuns in the first place. Perspective has been fucked out the window on this issue alone.[/quote]
There were plenty of instances where pressure was applied to families by said nuns and priests. The cunts would pick on the poorest telling parents struggling to get by that they would give the girl a good education if they sent them off to them.
And who created the culture of shame in being a single mother? Again, drilling it into young girls how dirty they were and how much disgrace they brought on their family.
Go way ye cunts⌠They picked on the weakest in society and created a society of hate and guilt that fuelled the whole system. Many of the parents were as much victims of these bastards as the women in question were.