Havenât heard Shanahan but if he is whinging fair enough to call it out. Apathy is the prevailing sentiment I would say too and thatâs more concerning than whinging.
Iâd donât see whinging from Waterford lads in here. Maybe I missed it.
Anyone I have spoken to have been disappointed yet again. Pissed off with performances at certain times. No one is blaming the current Munster set up. You take your beating and move on.
We havenât been good enough at all levels in recent years and that manifest itself at senior level. We even have the weakest managerial set up in Munster.
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Queally is moaning after most games about one thing or another tis real woe is me stuff.
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All he does is mouth and moan.
Roaring about steps or frees is what he brings to the table. Or cribbing that a point was wide and his team getting rinsed and 9 points down.
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Two wins and four losses from six games in the league - relegated.
One draw and three losses from four games in the championship - knocked out.
Obviously the problem is the competitions themselves. Maybe if Waterford just had to play one 60 minute game where they were given a six point lead at the start they could be hurling into June.
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In fairness itâs a time honoured GAA tradition. The league format changes every 18 months.
Waterford have a problem of their own they wonât fix. Have a cut off fixing that first maybe
Hon Laois.
I do feel slightly sorry for Waterford.
The current provincial round robin is âunfairâ in that Munster 100% is stronger than Leinster. Whether they would get out of the Leinster group, we canât be certain but theyâd presumably have a better chance (they had to play the last 3 AI champions + the reigning Munster champions this year).
If they moved away from a provincial-based round robin to two seeded groups of 6, it could increase their chances of qualifying but itâs a move that I donât think the GAA will go for in the next couple of years as it will almost lead to a drop in attendances generally, as there would be lessened jeopardy.
If it was seeded based on last yearâs Championsip performance, 2 groups would potentially have looked like:
Tipperary- winner
Dublin- SF
Galway- QF
Wexford- 4th
Clare- 5th
Laois (presuming it would be a 12-team Championship in this format)
Cork- finalist
Kilkenny- SF
Limerick- QF
Waterford- 4th
Offaly- 5th
Kildare- promoted
It would still be a decent format and the likes of Waterford would be expected to pick up a couple of wins, and depending on momentum, could end up getting through.
It may go there eventually but I think it would require a bit of a drop-off in attendances in Munster for them to be convinced.
Letting 4 teams from 5 out would be an unmitigated disaster, basically makes the round robin pointless- one win and you could be through. Kills all the jeopardy altogether.
But back to Waterford specifically, theyâve had some bad luck along the way but Iâm sure there are a decent few calls that have gone their way too that have been overlooked because they lost.
The injuries would be the major concern; I would agree that the depth of their panel isnât what some other teams are but they seem to be consistently down 4 or 5 players through injury, which stretches that panel even further. Like, what are they doing from an S&C perspective?
And itâs hard to be certain but you canât imagine that the Ballygunner situation and their utter dominance across all levels of club hurling does the county any favours. But thatâs not an easy one to fix (or even prove that it is a problem).
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One thing people arenât considering is that open draw/seeded groups would increase travel distance for games, along with decreased jeopardy it would negatively affect attendances.
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If they were in Leinster they would just lose a dull QF to a Munster team every year which wouldnât suit them either.
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The biggest issue is the microwave championship. 4 matches over 5 weekends in late April and early May.
Invariably there will be a rate of attrition and injuries with such a condensed schedule for all teams which hits the likes of Waterford particularly hard who as a consequence of demographics just donât have the playing pool or depth or numbers of other counties.
And all this rushing to get the championships out of the way and fulfill fixtures when Croke Park is then used as a concert venue for the month of August and an American Football venue in September.
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Iâd say a bigger issue for Waterford is their choice of managerial appointments. Fanning didnât seem to do great and then they plumped for davy again.
Waterford could really do with the dungarvan colleges combo team getting going again. They got a huge amount of players from in and around the town back them years but made a fatal mistake in winning the Harty.
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The off season needs to be extended to allow Martin Breheny to compile a few more lists
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Iâm pretty sure there was some sort of a Breheny list in the Limerick v Waterford match programme on Sunday. Iâll check it later when I get home.
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We have had a competition with cross-provincial groups for decades. Itâs called the league.
If the answer is another NHL Iâm not sure what the question is.
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Excellent, level post. Thanks for the thoughts â not just because I happen to agree with nearly all of them.
In such a format are you proposing the abolition of the provincial championships entirely and having a straight qualification structure, or to have the top three best Munster teams and three best Leinster teams across the two groups qualify, and retain provincial finals?
The success of the recent provincial football finals is yet another demonstration of why the abolition of the provincial championships in hurling just wouldnât work.
The identification with particuarly the Munster championship as a thing of immense value is far too strong. There would be hell to pay if there was no longer a Munster championship.
Leinster obviously does not have as strong a âbrandâ but the real problem with Leinster is the same team constantly beating the seame team in the provincial final and the poor performance of the other teams. Fix the competitiveness problem in Leinster and you fix about 90% of the problems. If Wexford to reach a provincial final again you probably get 60k going to Croke Park.
Munster rugby is a cautionary tale of how attendances can drop - and I think the current high attendances in Munster are driven by a range of particular factors - Limerickâs status as top dog, Clareâs status as perennial challenger to Limerick, Corkâs desperation for success, novelty, and Tony Kelly.
But new dynamics will inevitably emerge as the years go on and I think the Munster round robin objectively has been an outrageous success as a competition. I think the correct way to proceed is to try and bring the other competition up rather than abolish the successful competition to create two watered down ones.
The ugly sisters of Munster hurling clashes currently are currently Limerick v Waterford at Limerick and Tipp v Waterford at Thuirles. Most of the other possible 18 pairings will draw either huge crowds in big stadiums or fill smaller stadiums. But not those two.
These pairings are currently the ugly sisters of the 20 possible pairings because Waterford supporters wonât travel to Limerick or Thurles in numbers, and because Limerick and Tipp supporters arenât drawn to turn out in numbers by Waterford. Thereâs an âinferior goodâ status attached to these pairings in the public mind, the public expects there wonât be a big crowd and so it becomes a negative circle.
By abolishing the provinces and mixing them up, you create a lot more of these âinferior goodâ type clashes rather than the intense border rivalry pairings in full stadiums the Munster competition currently has.
You presumably remove provincial titles, which are huge deals for most teams.
You devalue the whole championship.
The gaps between matches as stated by @ChairmanDan is the real issue.
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Iâd agree with nearly all that but Waterford supporters will travel to Thurles. There was a big Waterford crowd in Thurles last year, Iâd say probably about the only day theyâve travelled since 2017.
Cork and Clare more or less fill their home grounds themselves for their home games regardless of size of travelling opposition support.
There was a small Waterford crowd in Limerick last Sunday, but in my estimation not a whole lot less than 2018, 2022 and 2024. The differences from previous years as I have already alluded to was the Limerick crowd for this years renewal was well down on previous years.