What is "centrism"?

Current Affairs
1

An awful lot of very online people claim they are “centrists” and pretty much always they’re actually raving right wing headbangers.

Russian agent, supporter of genocide and raving right wing nutcase Chay Bowes described himself as a “centrist”, Labane described himself as a centrist. So do several other raving far right head the balls here.

What I want to know is: What is actual centrism?

In my view it would compulsorily include but is not limited to the following basic ideas:

Acceptance that quality public services are a must in a society. That this involves a progressive taxation system where the richer you are the more you contribute in tax. That corporations should pay their fair share, which is more than 12.5% of profits.

Accepting the right to join a trade union. Accepting that trade unions are a vital part of any democracy.

Acceptance that the climate crisis is real. Acceptance that humanity has to do some major stuff to try and mitigate this crisis.

Rejection of genocide. Rejection of the unprovoked invasion of other countries.

Acceptance that the Covid pandemic was real. Acceptance that vaccines including the Covid vaccines work and are of great value to society.

Belief that truth matters. Which means not breathlessly repeating every made up piece of shit designed specifically to demonise immigrants or any other vulnerable groups in society.

Treating trans people with compassion and acceptance. Not treating them as the butt of a fascist campaign of ridicule and hatred.

Acceptance that abortion is a human right. That women have a right to decide what happens to their own bodies.

An acceptance that racism is wrong and should not be accepted in society and that those who consistently and wantonly promote it should face consequences.

An acceptance that widespread proliferation of guns is bad for society.

It seems axiomatic that all of these basic ideas taken together encompass what you’d call “centrism”.

Yet it seems to me that our resident self described “centrists” reject most or every one of these basic ideas.

So I will ask them: what is their definition of centrism?

2

Mainly the people who use the word centrist use it as a term of abuse for some reason

3 Likes
3

I don’t think they do and I sense a genuine discomfort in your post as regards the topic.

I think people who claim to be centrist but are obviously not centrist get mocked. Those people should be mocked because they’re obvious liars about what they are.

I would class the likes of Charles Kennedy or Robin Cook as having been genuine centrists. In an Irish parlance I’d class the majority of our TDs as centrists. In a US context I’d class somebody like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez as a centrist.

What do you consider to be the mandatory tenets of “centrism”?

4

In an Irish context a leftist is someone against property taxes and carbon taxes

1 Like
5

I think this article is accurate.

What puzzles me is how so many people who describe themselves as “centrists” turn out to be, well, basically Nazis.

The term “centrist” is the most abused term in politics, and the overwhelming amount of abuse of the term comes from the people who self-describe as “centrists”.

6

20241006_174419
20241006_174419907×555 19.5 KB

7

That doesn’t provide any insight at all but thanks for the effort of going looking on the information super highway for the image.

2 Likes
8

Being a centrist is modern day conservatism but with a political spectrum that has swung left over the last 100 years.

2 Likes
9

I think id agree with all them. Id say I’m centrist now but used to be a bit more of a lefty.

10

I don’t think that’s what it is and it’s quite leading to suggest that “the political spectrum has swung left over the last 100 years”.

1930s Germany was within the last 100 years and wasn’t a swing to the left. The political spectrum in the US consistently swung ever further to the right since the 1960s ended because the right wing crazies used very rich people’s money to organise themselves to a military degree in order to flood the information space with bullshit. Their success is demonstrated by the fact that the current favourite to win this year’s US presidential election is somebody who is basically a Nazi.

In the UK the political spectrum has swung sharply to the right since the 1970s, again aided by very rich people’s money which has shaped the information space.

In both countries the majority of the media looks upon trade unions and the concept of workers having rights as basically being equivalent to AIDS.

In Ireland the political spectrum has certainly swung left on social issues but that’s only after a long drawn out public debate over many decades in which everybody had to admit the left had been thoroughly correct on these issues all along. On social issues now what used to be considered “left” views have been accepted by all but a few crazy cranks.

Internationally, fascism is ascendant, driven on by oceans of very well funded lies and propaganda, and the Russian and Israeli fascist regimes have thrown the world into its worst state since World War II.

I would think any reasonable reading of the political situations across the world would demonstrate that politics has taken a sharp right turn pretty much across the board.

1 Like
11

Look at the crest of the curve. Thats where people are and the left side is the narrow world view you have

12

It absolutely has swung left with welfare states and more social freedom. There has been swings but that has been the trajectory.

Centrism is largely about the status quo & incremental change within the Overton window. Centre left and centre right has shrank though with views now more polarised.

Centrism has become a slur because the growing numbers of people shifting hard left and hard right all have this bizarre notion that we are in some evil hellscapes.

1 Like
13

Your post provides absolutely no insight and makes no sense but again thanks for going to the effort of posting it.

14

Mate, you mightn’t be that far right on the internet but in the real world you are very right of centre if centre represents the average educated man on the street,
Kid yourself all you want :man_shrugging:

1 Like
15

You’re not discussing what centrism is, you’re discussing what you think people mean by the term.

A welfare state has to be a centrist idea. It’s an idea that promotes social stability and prevents people from rotting on the streets.

Do you think that preventing people from rotting on the streets is an idea only held by left wing people? I don’t. Perhaps you do?

Centrism has become a slur because so many people who claim to be centrists are so demonstrably far right.

But again, this discussion isn’t designed to be about perception of the term. It’s about what actual centrism is.

In terms of the world being an evil hellscape, well yes, much of it is, and more of it threatens to be. To think otherwise, you’d have to completely discount the experiences of anybody outside your own narrow bubble.

16

Thought the forum established this. Probably work in an office, You take a bit of juvenile training for the young fellas team, watch rugby in the pub during the winter, think a lot about who your kids mix with, vote FFG or maybe Labour, don’t mind trans kids but would worry for them if you had one.

17

It seems to me a lot of posters on this forum don’t know what it means. These posters tend to be the people who most call themselves centrists. But a quick look at their posts would confirm they are very much not, because they reject many or most of the tenets of centrism I listed in the first post on this thread.

18

No I am discussing what centrism is.

Gay marriage was not a centrist position even 20 years ago, now it is a no brainer.

You bring up social welfare because that’s a no brainer to you as someone minded to the left. But that’s not what it always was.

Ir is about occupying the middle of the Overton window. Historically that has moved different directions at different times but the overall trajectory has been leftwards in the passage of time of people alive today’s direct human interactions.

That window has become far more stretched in recent years, there’s no question about that.

It can be challenging on certain issues whether it is necessarily left or right. Migration is a good example of that.

19

These discussions absolutely demand clear statements and whether you agree with them or not.

Id say every single person here would agree with every single statement in your opening post (possible exception the covid one)

20

I didn’t say centrism was about occupying the middle of the Overton window. That’s actually what you are claiming it is.

Being a centrist is first and foremost about the adherence to some basic, unchanging tenets of what society should be. I listed these tenets in the first post on the thread.

You can accept all of these tenets and still not be a centrist, but you can’t be a centrist without accepting all of them. Failure to accept all of them automatically means you can’t be a centrist.

The Overton window is a dynamic thing. In Nazi Germany and in current day Russia or Israel or the US, the Overton window is waaaay to the right.

In Israel, people who openly want extermination of the Palestinians are now wrongly considered “centrists”. But they aren’t centrists. You can’t be a centrist and want the extermination of another people, the two things are fundamentally incompatible. Calling for extermination is completely incompatible with being a centrist.

Saying with no evidence at all that Donald Trump won the 2020 election, when all evidence says Biden won it, is fundamentally incompatible with being a centrist.

What was a “centrist” in Nazi Germany? Somebody who only wanted to imprison all Jews rather than exterminate them? That’s not a centrist.