I can imagine. What was the gist of their comments against football?
Many GAA pundits do this too though.
[QUOTE=âchewy louie, post: 919237, member: 1137â]Could some of the older stock on here tell us what the attendances for 5 nations matches in Lansdowne road were like before 2000? From what I recall and from Rugby Gold on TG4 it looks as though they always got bumper crowd, so it is hardly a case of rugby support springing up overnight
People will always go and watch the highest level of a sport available to them, it is hardly a new phenomenom. Same way loads of your average sports fans in Ireland would watch/attend Irish international or EPL football matches or intercounty games but wouldnât have much interest League of Ireland or club championship.[/QUOTE]
The number of people in the stadium isnât a represntation of the media coverage enjoyed by rugby (and endured by the enlightened). There was always a big crowd at 5 Nations games but the match wasnât the sole topic of conversation for the entire broadsheet and broadcast media for a few days either side.
[QUOTE=âRocko, post: 919214, member: 1â]We are a nation of begrudgers apparently. So Bono said once. In one of his cleverer insights, he traced this scepticism of success to soup-taking during the famine. Then he rambled off on a patronising parable about some yank and a big house and the American dream and Irish dreamers and I lost interest again. But if we are begrudging as a people then it might just be one of the few things we do well. And even stranger, we do it well without falling over ourselves to congratulate one another about the whole endeavour.
We are also a nation of bandwagoners. Bebo, head shops and Garth Brooks all captured the public imagination here and became the greatest thing ever for a few days/weeks/months. And then they mostly just disappeared from our lives and we reverted to our normal selves, eagerly awaiting the next fad to sweep us off our feet. But what if one of those short-lived, harmless-seeming indulgences endured? What would Ireland look like in an apparently permanently obsessive state? Locked in a national embrace with a sport few play but everyone claims to love, weâre currently finding that out.
In the conflict between bandwagoner and begrudger Iâm happy to be in the latter camp. There may not be anything necessarily evil, or even mildly harmful, about the infestation of rugby into the consciousness of the Irish public. But the scale of this love affair with rugby is nauseating to those who arenât particularly interested. You canât just ignore rugby, the same way you couldnât just ignore the Plague in the Middle Ages. It occupies the news pages, the sport pages and the social pages of our newspapers. Social networks are corrupted by the rambling ill-informed opinions of a general public who have only taken any sort of interest in this sport in the last decade. And the assumption that grates the most is that weâre all ever so proud of how this small little nation is performing on the world stage. And weâre not just proud of them, weâre proud of ourselves for our fantastic support and our growth as a nation.
The unbridled euphoria that greeted Irelandâs Six Nations win last weekend was far from unexpected. Some of it was merited. By kick-off time there had been three weeks of intense media coverage about the retirement of Irelandâs greatest rugby player. And the stage was set for a grand finale. A win in Paris would be the perfect send-off. Except it wasnât quite a perfect send-off. It was a championship win in a tournament where the championship plays second fiddle to a Grand Slam. And that battle had long since been lost. This is an annual six team tournament, where only five teams have any sort of realistic chance of ever winning and only four teams have had any sort of realistic chance for the last decade. Ireland won. Itâs an achievement we should be recognising on a fairly regular basis by now.
Ireland have 2 âGrand Slamsâ in more than a century. Simple mathematics assumes you should win four matches in a row about once in every 16 years. The paucity of our return isnât shameful â itâs simply a reflection of the standing rugby has held in Irish society for the vast majority of its existence. It didnât gain widespread popularity because it was too complex to be enjoyed casually, it was too elitist to be played universally and it was frankly too boring to draw in a curious crowd beyond the core support base.
But now, itâs almost become our national game. Everyone has an opinion. From the sports fan at work who loves every game going to the crank calling Liveline to complain about the disrespectful noises made when someone was kicking for a goal, everybody has something to say about every game Ireland play. The Marian Finucane Show features some class of a rugby pundit virtually every week. And Marian herself isnât short of a viewpoint of course. Sure didnât she watch the game the same as everyone else? And didnât her heart skip a beat when âwe went upstairs to the TMOâ to confirm what was obvious in real-time?
The problem with these opinions is they are all the same. The game is won and lost at the breakdown. OâConnell has the heart of a lion. OâDriscoll is so brave. And what hands! Oh what glorious hands! And thatâs about it. The more adventurous armchair fan might venture to rehash a Gerry Thornley opinion on Conor Murrayâs pass or the âlinespeedâ of the French defence. But the overwhelming probability is they havenât played the game, nor have they seen a game played outside of a stadium so they donât really have anything to offer. They just regurgitate the same opinions each week, simply changing the name of our next opponents and seemingly believing in the nonsense they are spouting in unison. Itâs creepy.
Living in Dublin and not having much interest in rugby is what I imagine living in Mount Carmel, Texas and not being a fan of David Koresh must have felt like. You can politely nod at the brainwashed masses, exchange pleasantries about a game you didnât watch but know in detail because every middle-of-the-road, mainstream, bland DJ on the radio felt compelled to mention it at every turn. But the overriding feeling is a horrible sense that everyone has been taken in by a con. And they are blissfully unaware of how ridiculous they all sound extolling its virtues.
It would be more polite to stand idly by while the country pauses to cheer on their heroes but that stance is almost impossible for anyone with any emotions whatsoever. It would be more mature to simply ignore the delight others are taking in a victory. But maybe the whole country didnât grow up as a nation that fateful day when England or France came to Croke Park. Some of us have been left with real emotional reactions like bitterness and jealousy and self-righteousness and cynicism.
Without wanting to try and out-Bono the man himself, thereâs something particularly post-colonial about our infuriating need for acceptance from the world. It wouldnât be enough to go to France, win a match and return home with the trophy to a modest gathering at the airport. A gathering proportionate to the percentage of the population who actually play rugby maybe. That wouldnât do at all. This was rugby.
So we didnât just honour Brian OâDriscoll ourselves, thank him for the years of service and tell him how great he was. We wanted to know what the English thought of him. Were they honouring them the way they should? And as luck would have it wasnât Enda in the White House? Getting Obama to mention him by name? Perfectly appropriate, measured and sensible apparently. The idea of a speechwriter or political assistant with an imagination deficit suggesting to Obama that he mention Brian OâDriscoll in his St Patrickâs Day aside is cringeworthy. Has a Taoiseach ever looked more demeaned and insignificant than the beaming Enda Kenny, giddy and gleeful that Obama was deigning to humour us with that shout-out? Can you even imagine Ronald Reagan mentioning some long forgotten obscure Irish rugby hero from our unforgettable Triple Crown in 1982? Would anyone have known who on earth he was talking about?
The unfortunate reality is that this frenzied attraction to rugby is not likely to diminish in the short-term. The emperor may be wearing no clothes but the public have decided that doesnât matter â they all love the no clothes look. Itâs a topic everyone can be an expert on without risking ridicule, because the narratives are so consistent everyone can keep up. Complexities are airbrushed out of the conversation. And now thereâs even reason to celebrate. Against all the odds Ireland have managed to produce a victorious international team to parade alongside our triumphant provinces who regularly trample all over their opponents in grossly imbalanced competitions. The resulting hysteria is frightening.[/QUOTE]
I didnât feel it was relevant to the post. It is to my eternal credit that I excelled at the game and still saw its flaws.
[QUOTE=âcluaindiuic, post: 919252, member: 258â]I totally agree with @chewy louie.
The thing I donât understand is why people who donât like rugby care so much about the fact that people do like it. @Rocko, why do you give a shit here? 1300+ words.
All sports have flaws. If you donât like it, donât watch it, donât read it. Cut it out of your life.
I donât think this would be an issue if there were Premier League teams based out of Dublin, Cork and Galway. But a sports mad, event junkie ridden country wants to go to something and rugby was first up and best dressed when peopleâs wages started inflating. The fact that the majority of the unwashed masses are utterly clueless about the sport is irrelevant. Itâs not like the nation is full to the brim with footballing connoisseurs either. The general public are thick as shit, follow big events and try to align themselves with winners. So why be surprised when it happens? Bandwagoners in jumping on bandwagon shocker.
If there was a 6 Nations in soccer, involving the same 6 nations, how many times would we have beaten everyone? More than twice?[/QUOTE]
As others have pointed out, I donât think itâs possible to avoid it. Every radio programme on RTĂ last weekend mentioned the big match. It was worked into Countrywide, Marian had her fill of it of course, every DJ playing music read out dedications to the team. This wasnât an epic event - it was a regularly scheduled match that Ireland were playing every year and not quite as historic as everyone liked to make out.
I mentioned on here before how Roddy Collins was nearly kicked off the air when he dared say that he didnât have any time for rugby. He pointed out, when asked, that itâs not played by many people and he doesnât particularly like the physical nature of it. That produced reactions of outrage. Now anyone can say what they like about soccer (âgrown men rolling around pretending theyâre injuredâ etc) and why not? But you dare not say anything even remotely critical of rugby.
[QUOTE=âGman, post: 919254, member: 112â]Iâm indifferent enough to rugby myself. cant say I hate it with a passion, nor do I love it, but I would watch it and on occasion would enjoy it. I think anyone who watches sport would. It can be goddamn awful to watch too. Its probably not the cool thing on here to admit, but I was genuinely happy to see Ireland beat France on Saturday.
one of the phenomenons I do see with rugby though is that it seems to have taken up a lot of people who generally used to have no interest in sport at all. They werenât into soccer, or GAA, or whatever, but now this was a ânewâ game, and they could seamlessly start following it with a passion and look like they are the biggest fan. Its a strange sort of band wagoning. Some lads I see following it now, never had any interest in sport at all when I was in school and younger, and definitely not rugby in its previous format, but now have themselves adorned in their provincial jersey and Irish jersey and are huge fans.
the over emphasis by the media though and the constant referencing of it as the big game, and even more so, the huge interest it generates for women for whatever reason, and now showing their putrid games on TV would grate on me. Some of the fawning over the âskillsâ players do would make you wonder had the person going on about it ever been on a sports field in their life.
Its almost like it is the new cool thing to be âinâ and conversely now the cool thing for the hipsters to be against.[/QUOTE]
I have a few acquaintances like that too. Lads who had no interest in sport, and thatâs their thing, but all of a sudden theyâre going to the RDS and theyâre season ticket holders. And theyâre telling me their opinion! And trying to convince me how great someone is. They have no concept of basic athleticism, let alone a rudimentary familiarity with the sport.
[QUOTE=âRocko, post: 919271, member: 1â]I didnât feel it was relevant to the post. It is to my eternal credit that I excelled at the game and still saw its flaws.
[/QUOTE]
No harm to hold a nugget like that in reserve anyways, as it would definitely have the potential to earn you a âwell clampedâ rating at some stage.
The saturation media coverage is what turns a lot of GAA and football supporters off rugby. Every single game is a do-or-die battle, every match more massive and challenging than the last. Even friendlies are given the importance of world cup finals, there is simply no run of the mill matches so the hype and hysteria is non stop. As a result the national team or provincial franchises beating an Italian or Scottish pub team is heralded as some sort of an achievement.
Rugby is the sport of the housewives favourites. Ray DâArcy knows little about sport but he and his minions are big rugby fans. Mary from Mullingar texting in to say what a legend BOD is and how he and Amy and little Sadie are so lovely. And Rita from Castletroy saying how Donncha OâCallaghan is so funny and he made a funny face when he visited her sick nephew at hospital on his deathbed. The accompanying tweets and selfies from all the players recycled in all the newspapers. They are all modest lads though, salt of the earth and those mercenary footballers could learn a lot from them.
It is sport for middle Ireland, theyâve no real involvement, it doesnât hurt when they lose but by God will they update their Facebook status and let the world know they answered Irelandâs Call on Saturday by going to the pub to cheer on Trimbs, Drico, Kearnivore, Paulie and all the rest of those LEGENDS. #ModernDayGladiators. So what if they are a bit hazy of the rules, just scream âhands in the ruckâ or âheâs off his feet, refâ and youâll be accepted into the rugby family.
Ireland rugby team perform shit - they are still heroes. Grand slams? World cups? Fuck that, these lads have the Magners League titles over teams like Treviso, Zebre, Newport Gwent Dragons and Edinburgh to prove how good they are.
[QUOTE=âfarmerinthecity, post: 919247, member: 24â]I think @Rocko is an awful old clown at times but by God that is a tremendous piece of writing.
Bravo.
This is my favourite bit.[/QUOTE]
While I think what Rocko says here is true in this instance, a team can be shit at a sport for lots of reasons. Ireland were/are equally rubbish at soccer and the bandwagon that gathers whenever thereâs a sniff of success is rarely subjected to the same level of opprobrium.
I think the elitism thing is at the heart of the whole issue though. It has always primarily been the posh folkâs sport, and now it feels a little like the masses are grovelling at the feet of their social betters when in truth they have no real attachment to the sport whatsoever.
Joe Schmidt put the boot in last night too.
Technical rules have been used to rule out a COTY 2014 nomination according to the moderators on here who I think Harbo has got to.
[QUOTE=âdodgy-keeper, post: 919273, member: 1552â]The saturation media coverage is what turns a lot of GAA and football supporters off rugby. Every single game is a do-or-die battle, every match more massive and challenging than the last. Even friendlies are given the importance of world cup finals, there is simply no run of the mill matches so the hype and hysteria is non stop. As a result the national team or provincial franchises beating an Italian or Scottish pub team is heralded as some sort of an achievement.
Rugby is the sport of the housewives favourites. Ray DâArcy knows little about sport but he and his minions are big rugby fans. Mary from Mullingar texting in to say what a legend BOD is and how he and Amy and little Sadie are so lovely. And Rita from Castletroy saying how Donncha OâCallaghan is so funny and he made a funny face when he visited her sick nephew at hospital on his deathbed. The accompanying tweets and selfies from all the players recycled in all the newspapers. They are all modest lads though, salt of the earth and those mercenary footballers could learn a lot from them.
It is sport for middle Ireland, theyâve no real involvement, it doesnât hurt when they lose but by God will they update their Facebook status and let the world know they answered Irelandâs Call on Saturday by going to the pub to cheer on Trimbs, Drico, Kearnivore, Paulie and all the rest of those LEGENDS. #ModernDayGladiators. So what if they are a bit hazy of the rules, just scream âhands in the ruckâ or âheâs off his feet, refâ and youâll be accepted into the rugby family.
Ireland rugby team perform shit - they are still heroes. Grand slams? World cups? Fuck that, these lads have the Magners League titles over teams like Treviso, Zebre, Newport Gwent Dragons and Edinburgh to prove how good they are.[/QUOTE]
Anybody else reminded of Dunphy in Italia 90
The whole Ireland verus England in Croke Park really grated me.
The day we grew up as a nation.
âGrew up?â What does that mean?
Is it suggesting the armed struggle against Britain was something we needed to âgrow upâ from?
Of course it could only happen with rugby, the sport where you must call the referee Sir.
Some âsoccer scumbagsâ attempted to boo God Save The Queen but we soon shut them up. I mean soldiers acting in the name of that Queen/King only murdered civilians playing football on this very pitch. Soldiers acting to the word of the National Anthem that we are politely observing (maybe even humming along to - itâs a good tune). Not to mention what happened in the six counties.
[QUOTE=âPhil Leotardo, post: 919267, member: 197â]I can imagine. What was the gist of their comments against football?
Many GAA pundits do this too though.[/QUOTE]
McGurk was slagging off âPremiership soccer starsâ. âThe comparison with rugby is very illustrative.â
Marian waffled on about rugby players and âhow they do play by the rulesâ (clearly drawing a comparison with association football).
Another panellist then went on about Stuart Hoggâs elbow in the red card and made a bizarre point about how it actually summed up the culture of respect in rugby.
McGurk: Nigel Owens has got himself a banner at Thomond Park which says âItâs not soccer.â
Marian: âYeah, that sort of states it! (chuckle chuckle)â
McGurk: âIt was extraordinary how it spread around the world, looking at the social media and Facebook, Twitter etc. Everybody in the country was watching, and they were watching all around the world, in Australia and New Zealand, the global audience must have been in the millions and millions and millions.â
âIt was absolutely life-changing for peopleâs lives.â
Gemma Hussey: âSport has this amazing capacity to lift us all.â
Marian: âEddie OâSullivan, how did you get through yesterday? Did you have a heart attack like the rest of the country for two minutes?â
Eddie OâSullivan: âRugby is growing almost exponentially in the sports marketplace because people appreciate that culture of respect and that gladiatorial element to the game.â
Culture of respect, indeed. Eye, gouging, stamping, punching, spear tackling, ear biting, kicking, raking. A better class of thuggery.
The overwhelmingly positive and biased coverage in the media is a big part of the problem. Most bandwagons are at some point grounded by the intervention of reality. That just doesnât happen in rugby because the frequently abject performances of the goys is simply ignored. The bad episodes are simply erased from the collective memory and the whole narrative is one of uninterrupted success, one in which against all rational or reasonable analysis an era mostly defined by failure can be described as a golden age.
[QUOTE=âRocko, post: 919271, member: 1â]I didnât feel it was relevant to the post. It is to my eternal credit that I excelled at the game and still saw its flaws.
As others have pointed out, I donât think itâs possible to avoid it. Every radio programme on RTĂ last weekend mentioned the big match. It was worked into Countrywide, Marian had her fill of it of course, every DJ playing music read out dedications to the team. This wasnât an epic event - it was a regularly scheduled match that Ireland were playing every year and not quite as historic as everyone liked to make out.
[/QUOTE]
Gatland dropping OâDriscoll was the Princess Diana moment. This was the resurrection.
Anything about Cian Healyâs flying headbutt on the French lad?
Lads get very articulate on here when the seething levels are high.
I have said it before but you get a fine class of poster on here - maybe start a weekly guest blog/column - some of the writing on here is too good to be disposable and lost in a very long thread.
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 919283, member: 2272â]Lads get very articulate on here when the seething levels are high.
I have said it before but you get a fine class of poster on here - maybe start a weekly guest blog/column - some of the writing on here is too good to be disposable and lost in a very long thread.[/QUOTE]
Thanks very much UM, but Iâm happy enough to keep my musings in the threads.
The âculture of respectâ myth and the thinly veiled snobbish tones its eulogised through is the most nauseating of all.
Association football has a far greater culture of respect than rugby.
[QUOTE=âSidney, post: 919285, member: 183â]The âculture of respectâ myth and the thinly veiled snobbish tones its eulogised through is the most nauseating of all.
Association football has a far greater culture of respect than rugby.[/QUOTE]
Sure donât the soccer players even wear it on their sleeves?
great passion makes for great writing I think
the teenage angst of lads on here must have seen some poetry and song writing
Did @markrenton have bad hips as a teenager?
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 919283, member: 2272â]Lads get very articulate on here when the seething levels are high.
I have said it before but you get a fine class of poster on here - maybe start a weekly guest blog/column - some of the writing on here is too good to be disposable and lost in a very long thread.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs it Iâm getting the blog going again.