That was a very curious discussion on RTÉ last night. They have had it lots of times before (football on the streets, coaching badges, Stanley Matthews etc) but it had zero relevance to the match. Germany hammering Brazil isn’t evidence of a game dying a death. I was trying to remember afterwards how they even drew the first tenuous link, but I think it was just a full on rant about Brazil that morphed into a global problem, and then one specific to Scotland for some reason.
Dunphy once made the point that all the best countries could point to a dictator (usually fascist) in their past
It is a street game etc. Argument last night was about coaching destroying talent. Skipped over Messi moving to Barcelona as quite a young kid to be “coached”. No joined up thinking to what he says.
I don’t think that was the point he was making…it was more about there not being as many all round footballers who have mastered the basic skills and are intelligent enough to read the game…comfortable kicking on either foot, good close control, good vison etc.?..does Bale have all that?..or is he lightning quick and tries to do the same thing every time?..
I think Dunphy’s overall point was that kids are learning to play in a system from a very young age which means they learn how to play a position more than developing the all round skills a footballer needs…i wouldn’t fully agree with him but I see where he is coming from …
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 980052, member: 2272”]Dunphy once made the point that all the best countries could point to a dictator (usually fascist) in their past
It is a street game etc. Argument last night was about coaching destroying talent. Skipped over Messi moving to Barcelona as quite a young kid to be “coached”. No joined up thinking to what he says.[/QUOTE]
Germany produced a devastating display based an awful lot on coaching and structure. I would presume this has always played a huge part in German football success though. And that of the likes of holland in the 70s. The no great players thing is just off the wall. No awareness as this might be because we see the great players week in week out and might be more aware of their flaws.
It is just one mans opinion which is fair enough bit it needs someone younger to argue forcefully against it. Brady does it a bit but is kind of happy enough to go with ‘the things were better in our day’ line too.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 980052, member: 2272”]Dunphy once made the point that all the best countries could point to a dictator (usually fascist) in their past
It is a street game etc. Argument last night was about coaching destroying talent. Skipped over Messi moving to Barcelona as quite a young kid to be “coached”. No joined up thinking to what he says.[/QUOTE]
I think it all goes back to the coaching philosophy…some coaches want to teach the kids the basic skills and then sit back and watch how the kids use them to play …its a more long term approach…other coaches train them short term to play to win - i.e the biggest and the strongest get picked first… I was talking to a guy who was involved in league Of Ireland for years… he was convinced the latter is why Ireland don’t produce too many really classy footballers, who are comfortable on the ball … he believed the underage leagues in Ireland are all about winning your league each year as opposed to developing the players long term…
I think some countries have banned results of games under a certain age - maybe 12?
I was at a talk once where Alex Ferguson spoke - one of the things he said was the worst way to get good at football was to play football matches and that the best players he had worked with were so good because they spent hours practising specific skills
The set up is all wrong in ireland. There’s no semblance of a long term plan because there’s fuck all pride in the clubs as clubs or ambition to develop them as adult players to play for that particular club. The big underage ‘nurseries’, in dublin anyway, barely have adult teams to speak of. It’s all about going to England and the whole culture is individualistic. Young lads moving round club to club with no loyalty until most of the good lads end up at a particular club at a particular age group.
Sure why would the coaches have any long term vision in that set up? It’s all about winning that years league.
The standard of coaching is much improved and there are still some good players being produced but that’s a fundamental flaw in the system from what I can see. It’s all about get to England as quick as you can and nothing else matters.
Irish youngsters should not be allowed leave for foreign clubs until they are 19/20 and clubs should be reasonably compensated. The FAI should concentrate on getting LOI to the level the SPL minus Celtic is at now. Scotland are benefiting from players coming through the ranks at likes of Dundee United, Kilmarnock etc.
This is probably not very practical but something along these lines should be done.
[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 980086, member: 2533”]Irish youngsters should not be allowed leave for foreign clubs until they are 19/20 and clubs should be reasonably compensated. The FAI should concentrate on getting LOI to the level the SPL minus Celtic is at now. Scotland are benefiting from players coming through the ranks at likes of Dundee United, Kilmarnock etc.
This is probably not very practical but something along these lines should be done.[/QUOTE]
Is that first part not against EU law?
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 980052, member: 2272”]Dunphy once made the point that all the best countries could point to a dictator (usually fascist) in their past
It is a street game etc. Argument last night was about coaching destroying talent. Skipped over Messi moving to Barcelona as quite a young kid to be “coached”. No joined up thinking to what he says.[/QUOTE]
Well he is right about one thing, you can’t coach genius. The main reason Messi moved to Barca was to get the growth hormone drugs. He would be outstanding with or without Barcelona
The point abut coaching was badly made, as what really fucked Brazil up was that they clearly needed to be coached more on the defensive side of things.
The Germans had a disasterous Euro 2000. They went back and looked at their coaching structures. All their national teams play the same way. And the bundesliga supports the national association.
Was David luiz possibly at fault for all 7 goals? Think it happened Richie dunne one time vs Thierry Henry and arsenal where he was at fault for six. The goal early enough where luiz shot up out of the defensive line like a rugby player or something was barely believable it was that bad.
do you really think you need to coach someone at their age not to get caught in possession that near to your goal or that you shouldn’t sprint up field when you have no cover behind you?..would have thought that’s the basics…
What about the growth hormones?
[QUOTE=“Tabby, post: 980073, member: 2142”]The set up is all wrong in ireland. There’s no semblance of a long term plan because there’s fuck all pride in the clubs as clubs or ambition to develop them as adult players to play for that particular club. The big underage ‘nurseries’, in dublin anyway, barely have adult teams to speak of. It’s all about going to England and the whole culture is individualistic. Young lads moving round club to club with no loyalty until most of the good lads end up at a particular club at a particular age group.
Sure why would the coaches have any long term vision in that set up? It’s all about winning that years league.
The standard of coaching is much improved and there are still some good players being produced but that’s a fundamental flaw in the system from what I can see. It’s all about get to England as quick as you can and nothing else matters.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I would fully agree from my experience of underage soccer for the past 6 years.
Mascherano gave the ball away and Trevor said “that’s why he’s a regular for club and country.” That annoyed me on a few levels - the obvious one being that he had given the ball away in a bad area. Another being that we know he’s a regular for club and country. Another being that it’s just throwing in a stock phrase “club and country” when it has no relevance.
Then from that resultant error, Sneijder hit a half-volley wide from 25 yards and Trevor said he should have made the goalkeeper work. It was decent technique from Sneijder on a very difficult ball.
Wonderful lack of sentimentality from Giles there when the camera was on Robben and his family.
Dunphy trying to impress and getting in as quick as he can to say they met in a final in 1990 but they were west Germany then.