Between never getting the help they hoped from the Germans and the confusion surrounding whether the thing was even going to go ahead or not, they hadn’t a hope of achieving anything militarily. Some of the leaders, Pearse obviously, believed in the whole “blood sacrifice” aspect of it, but you’d wonder how many of the rank and files went out knowing the Rising was doomed to fail.
Just like the lads in Paris a few months ago, they went out to cause terror, death and destruction.
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Pretty much all of them, I’d imagine.
Connolly himself said “we are going out to be slaughtered.”
But it completely changed the situation in the minds of the people and completely changed the course of what was to come, which was the ultimate aim.
Revisionist is the favourite word of someone who has been brought up being taught that it can’t be questioned.
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Do you think it would have changed the situation in the minds of the public if the British hadn’t shot the leaders?
Ultimately the brits were the main success factor in the whole thing in many ways - if they’d just shipped them all off to Frongoch would there have been the same change in public opinion?
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No - The Brits made Martyrs of them, a lesson they never learned from… Even after they were killed the majority of the Island didn’t necessarily support violent stuggle or independence … the IRA were largely regarded as thugs.
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Was the threat of conscription the key event?
In '16 ? I don’t think so but it was certainly in the air… It was introduced in mainland Britain in 1916 but Ireland was excluded - It was obviously used as propaganda by IRA/IRB
Agreed that the Brits made martyrs of them, which probably wasn’t the wisest move.
What in your opinion started to swing mainstream public opinion to the Republicanism of the 1916 leaders and subsequently Sinn Fein?
Fears of conscription in Ireland only really gathered steam in 1918. It was definitely a key factor in igniting the War of Independence.
Does nobody think that news of tens of thousands of Irish deaths in France and Belgium might also have played on the public mood?
Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said today, that he will consider cancelling the 1916 centenary commemorations, and he laid the blame firmly at the feet of the #savemoorestreet occupationists. Mr Kenny said the heroes of 1916 will be turning in their graves and would never condone this disgraceful “rebellious dissident behaviour”!!!
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There was already huge support for home rule before the war ever started so it’s not much of a stretch to imagine a decent portion of them wanted independence as well.
I think the lack of support for the rising is confused with the lack of support for independence.
I think that’s someone’s idea of a hilarious joke Joe.
I like the term occupationists though, the only occupation most of them ever had.
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Of course its bull shite
What need you being come to sense but fumble in a greasy till
Britain’s difficulty was once more to be Ireland’s opportunity. We are fools
In 1915 Sinn Fein were nothing but volunteers - 3 years later they sweep the board… The threat of conscription flooded the ranks of the IRA and as soon as that threat ended they all left again. The real reason they were successful in the 18 election is becuase of the collapse of the IPP, labour stepping aside and in many areas, intimidation… In Limerick, Michael Joyce, the IPP candidate and MP for Limerick since the turn of the century, wrote that his main supporters suddenly stopped supporting him in curious circumstances - it is widely beleived he had a gun put to his head… Even if you look at the numbers post election, there wasn’t a whole lot in it after '16, threat of conscription and election intimidation… If Labour hadn’t stepped aside the numbers would have been even further diluted.
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Very informative. Thanks.
In short - there was no great support for Sinn Fein - They preached to the middle/upper classes with their ideals but employed the lower orders to do their bidding. A combination of events led to them marginally winning the '18 election which they used as a mandate to free Ireland even tho a lot of the population were not looking to be independent.