Bandage I would say that it more a sickening example of political jargon than of office jargon.
Quoted on this years back but the short end is most definitely a holiding position, they are buying up loads of property around the stadium to limit number of objectors, as stadium is now will cost fuck all to remove what’s there.
Think there has definitely been an upswing in tourism over last 6 mths, whether it is related to this or not I don’t know
Think we could definitely host it. mcWilliams said on OTB it was third biggest sporting event in the wold after the Olympucs nd football WC, we will never host either of other 2
We would need GAA involved though no doubt. Could be massive opportunity to pack out the championship for the summer by selling joint tickets. Upgrade PUC instead of musgraves, at joint expense of IRFU and GAA.
Infrastructure here is better than NZ, hotels etc wouldn’t be an issue.
The huge numbers of SANZA in the UK would be a huge positive for crowd numbers
Not sur that IRB would give it to Irl though. For growth of game doesn’t make sense. US/Canada/arg would be more attractive from that perspective.
Should def be looked into. Would be great for the country
The whole reason the games are shared among NH countries wasn’t really for stadium reasons but to get the other countries’ support in the bidding process. That’s probably less relevant now if there’s an expressed wish to avoid joint-hosts but to get any chance you first of all have to convince England, Scotland, Wales (and maybe France) that they’ve nothing to gain.
On the face of it Scotland would look far more capable of hosting the event. They have Murrayfield, Hampden, Celtic Park, Hunville, Pittodrie, Tynecastle, Easter Road etc. They’re used to dealing with top-end tourism from their golf courses and they’ve plenty of hotels etc as a result.
I wouldn’t think it would make sense for Ireland. No matter what the payoff (and I’d have serious doubts about the global appeal of rugby - the vast majority of the tv audience will be European and fully aware of Ireland), we can’t afford to pay up front for anything anyway. That’s why we’re relying on the IMF.
Third biggest sporting event in the world me hoop. The European Cup would knock it into a cocked hat for a start, as would the African Cup of Nations.
It’d probably give the Highland Games a run for it’s money though.
+1
the Euros
the African nations
the worl athletics championships
the copa america
to name but a few
Winter Olympics
NFL Playoffs
World Series Baseball
Commonwealth Games
The Ryder Cup is clearly the third largest sporting event in the world*.
*even though golf is not a sport
I’ve done out a detailed plan about how a Rugby World Cup in Ireland would actually work in practice, based on previous tournaments.
The 2011 tournament used 12 stadiums, 2015 will use 13, while 2019 will use 11.
If we assume that any bid will need support from Wales and Scotland, likely involving those teams having one or two of their group matches in Cardiff/Edinburgh, the minimum any tournament here will need is nine stadiums. I’ll go with 11 Irish stadiums for argument’s sake.
These would be:
Croke Park, Dublin
82k, can be easily converted to 74k all-seated for the tournament if deemed necessary, no work needed.
Lansdowne Road, Dublin
50k all-seated, no work needed.
Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork
45k, not all-seated. I’ve seen the proposals for the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh and it looks like a bit of a dog’s dinner, in all honesty. Three sides of the the ground will remain pretty similar to what they are now, with 1970s terracing remaining behind the goals. This is not the type of terracing that can be easily converted to seating. Cork would have to be included in any bid however and this is the only viable option.
Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney
Currently 43k but only 9k seated. Killarney is connected by rail, has an airport nearby. Connected by national primary road. Tourist hub so should be able to cater for visiting supporters. Fitzgerald Stadium would require major upgrading.
New Casement Park, Belfast (37k all-seated)
Will be part of any bid. However the rebuilding has run into legal problems with residents. Concerns remain about whether the site can cater for such a stadium and there is even talk about moving the site to nearby Musgrave Park. While the planned 2017 opening date is beginning to look optimistic, 2023 is plenty of time to get things sorted.
Thomond Park, Limerick
26k, not all-seated)
Would certainly be a part of any bid. The Gaelic Grounds up the road from it holds 49,000. But do you really want a bid where three cities have more than one stadium? Likely that no work would be needed. Connected by airport, motorway and rail.
Pearse Stadium, Galway
Currently 26k with the vast majority standing. No airport, but well connected by motorway, rail and bus services. Galway is a tourist hub with enough hotel rooms to cater for supporters. Pearse Stadium would probably need one new stand to add to the existing one. However this would be problematic given that the stadium is hemmed in badly by housing - a whole host of legal issues re light etc would likely arise here. Any new stand would realistically have to buy and demolish a row of houses in what is an expensive area property-wise.
RDS, Dublin
Likely 22k all-seater by then. If the new proposal released this year goes hrough, the RDS could certainly hold matches, but this would Dublin’s third stadium in the bid and very much the poor relation of those three.
Celtic Park, Derry
22k currently but vast majority standing. Derry is Ireland fourth largest city. If the bid is to be all-island it makes sense for it to be involved. Celtic Park would require significant upgrading. Rebuilding the Brandywell next door is another option. Derry is connected (poorly) by rail, national primary roads, it also has a small airport.
Ravenhill, Belfast
18k, mostly but not all-seated. Would likely be a part of any bid but could not expect to hold many matches given its small capacity.
Nowlan Park, Kilkenny:
Currently 24k with most seated. Connected by motorway and rail, a comfortable enough distance for people travelling from Dublin. Stadium will require upgrading - probably a new main stand. Kilkenny is a tourist town and well set up to cater for visitors.
Five of those stadiums are in Dublin/Belfast. The other three are in Munster, with one in the rest of Leinster, one in Connacht and one in the rest of Ulster.
Killarney would be the only town hosting a match, the others are all cities.
Six matches including two quarter-finals in my sample bid are played in Wales/Scotland, three in Cardiff, three in Edinburgh. 2015 has six matches in Wales, none in Scotland. 2007 had four in Wales, two in Scotland.
Seven of the stadiums would be GAA venues, the other four existing rugby grounds. Lansdowne Road would likely host the opening match, with Croke Park the final, given its greater capacity.
Let’s do out a sample group phase:
Group A
Ireland
Australia
Samoa
Georgia
Namibia
Group B
New Zealand
Wales
Italy
Tonga
Japan
Group C
South Africa
France
Fiji
Canada
Russia
Group D
England
Argentina
Scotland
USA
Romania
Based on 2023 dates, the tournament would likely start on Friday September 15 (not set in stone of course, it could be played a week later) with the final on Sunday October 29th (which would be a perfect weekend for the final as it’s a bank holiday in Ireland).
Here’s a sample fixture list based loosely on previous tournaments:
- Fri Sep 15: Ireland v Samoa - Lansdowne Road (opening match)
- Sat Sep 16: Wales v Japan - Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork
- Sat Sep 16: New Zealand v ltaly Casement Park, Belfast
- Sat Sep 16: Australia v Namibia - Thomond Park, Limerick
- Sat Sep 16: USA v Romania - Nowlan Park, Kilkenny
- Sun Sep 17 England v Argentina - Croke Park, Dublin
- Sun Sep 17: South Africa v Fiji - Pearse Stadium, Galway
- Sun Sep 17: France v Canada - Ravenhill, Belfast
- Tues Sep 19: Georgia v Samoa - Thomond Park
- Wed Sep 20: Wales v Tonga - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
- Wed Sep 20: Scotland v Romania - Murrayfield, Edinburgh
- Thurs Sep 21: Canada v Russia - RDS, Dublin
- Fri Sep 22: Ireland v Namibia - Croke Park, Dublin
- Sat Sep 23: ltaly v Japan - Pearse Stadium, Galway
- Sat Sep 23: South Africa v France - Lansdowne Road, Dublin
- Sat Sep 23: England v USA - Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork
- Sun Sep24: Argentina v Scotland - Murrayfield, Edinburgh
- Sun Sep 24: New Zealand v Tonga - Lansdowne Road, Dublin
- Mon Sep 25 Australia v Georgia - Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney
- Tues Sep 26: Fiji v Russia Nowlan Park, Kilkenny
- Wed 27 Samoa v Namibia - Celtic Park, Derry
- Thurs Sep 28: England v Romania Casement Park, Belfast
- Fri Sep 29: South Africa v Canada Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney
- Sat Sep 30 Ireland v Australia - Croke Park
- Sat Sep 30: New Zealand v Japan - Thomond Park, Limerick
- Sun Oct 1: Wales v ltaly - Lansdowne Road
- Sun Oct 1:France v Russia Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork
- Sun Oct 1: Scotland v USA, Ravenhill, Befast
- Mon Oct 2: Argentina v Romania Celtic Park, Derry
- Tues Oct 3: Fiji v Canada - Casement Parkl, Belfast
- Tues October 3 Georgia v Namibia - RDS, Dublin
- Wed Oct 4: Tonga Japan - Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork
- Fri Oct 6: England v Scotland - Croke Park, Dublin
- Sat Oct 7: Argentina v USA - Pearse Stadium, Galway
- Sat Oct 7 Ireland v Georgia - Lansdowne Road, Dublin
- Sat Oct 7: New Zealand v Wales - Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
- Sat Oct 7: South Africa v Russia Ravenhill, Belfast
- Sun Oct 8: France v Fiji - Thomond Park Limerick
- Sun Oct 8: ltaly v Tonga - RDS, Dublin
- Sun Oct 8 Australia v Samoa - Casement Park, Belfast
[B]Quarter-Finals:
Saturday October 14th[/B]
3: C1 France V D2 Argentina Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
1: A1 Ireland v B2 Wales Lansdowne Road, Dublin
Sunday October 15th
4: D1 England V C2 South Africa Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2: B1 New Zealand V A2 Australia Croke Park, Dublin
Semi-Finals
Saturday October 21st
W1 Ireland V W4 England Croke Park, Dublin
Sunday October 22nd
W2 New Zealand V W3 France Croke Park, Dublin
3rd place play-off:
Friday October 27th - Lansdowne Road, Dublin
Final:
Sunday October 29th - Croke Park, Dublin
There are a few issues that have to be addressed.
i)That five of the 11 Irish stadiums would be in two cities. This is not ideal, but there is no way around it and any bid will have to live with this.
ii) The two highest capacity stadiums in Croke Park and Lansdowne Road are both in Dublin.
iii) In New Zealand 2011, the two largest stadiums (Eden Park Auckland and Westpac Stadium, Wellington) hosted all four quarter finals between them. If all four quarter-finals were to be held in our two largest stadiums, that means Croke Park and Lansdowne Road. But hosting four quarter-finals in Dublin on one weekend would be chaos and cannot be done. At least one and likely two of the quarter-finals would have to be held in either Belfast and/or Cork if all four were to be held in Ireland. However, there has to be a question mark whether either the new Casement Park and/or the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh would be of the standard required to host a quarter-final.
By far the most likely way out of this, and what would almost certainly happen, is that at least one of the quarter-finals will be in Cardiff and/or Edinburgh.
iv) Croke Park will have to be “free” for at least two weeks before the tournament. In a normal year the All-Ireland football final would be on September 17th or 24th (it has alternated between the third and fourth Sundays over the last two decades). If the RWC started on September 15th, that would mean the very latest a match could be played at Croke Park would be Sunday September 3rd. Allowing for a replay in either the football or hurling final, you’d realistically need to push the football final forward to Sunday August 26th, in the event of the World Cup starting on September 15th.
v) The timeframe for the Rugby World Cup is the peak season for the latter stages of the county club championships. Arrangements re fixtures would have to be worked out. I don’t see this presenting a major problem, though.
Seven of the stadiums I’ve listed as part of the bid are GAA stadiums. The impact on the respective county championships could be minimised in most cases by using secondary county grounds .
Instead of Pearse Stadium, Tuam, Athenry and Ballinasloe could be used for the Galway championships.
Austin Stack Park in Tralee and Pairc Ui Rinn in Cork could be used instead of Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney and Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Derry’s new ground at Owenbeg could be used in place of Celtic Park.
Antrim and Kilkenny would find it a bit harder to find replacement venues for Casement Park and Nowlan Park but those grounds would be ready to go again for GAA action by mid October at the latest. An Antrim friend of mine assures me they’d have adequate alternative venues to cope. I’ll have to consult Canice about alternative venues in Kilkenny. Freshford perhaps?
The National Leagues would have to start probably two weeks earlier than normal, on January 22nd. The championships would have to start on the last weekend of April/first weekend of May. Decisions may also have to be taken on scheduling - ie both All-Ireland semi-finals in the football and hurling championships might have to take place on the same weekend.
vi) One other thing that would have to be accommodated is Ireland’s qualifying games for Euro 2024. September and October 2023 will be key dates for these matches and Ireland would normally be expected to have at least one home match, and more likely two, between the early September and mid-October dates. This poses a scheduling problem. Could Ireland host an early September qualifier given that the Rugby World Cup would start on September 15th? Doubtful. And a home match on the mid-October date would certainly be ruled out if Lansdowne Road was to host a quarter-final.
Breakdown of matches by venue:
Croke Park - 8
Sun Sep 17 England v Argentina
Fri Sep 22: Ireland v Namibia
Sat Sep 30 Ireland v Australia
Fri Oct 6: England v Scotland
1 quarter-final
2 semi-finals
The final
Lansdowne Road - 7
Fri Sep 15: Ireland v Samoa
Sat Sep 23: South Africa v France
Sun Sep 24: New Zealand v Tonga
Sun Oct 1: Wales v ltaly
Sat Oct 7: Ireland v Georgia
1 quarter-final
3rd/4th place play-off
Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork - 4
Sat Sep 16: Wales v Japan
Sat Sep 23: England v USA
Sun Oct 1: France v Russia
Wed Oct 4: Tonga v Japan
Thomond Park, Limerick - 4
Sat Sep 16: Australia v Namibia
Tue Sep 19: Georgia v Samoa
Sat Sep 30: New Zealand v Japan
Sun Oct 8: France v Fiji
Casement Park, Belfast - 4
Sat Sep 16: New Zealand v ltaly
Thurs Sep 28: England v Romania
Tues Oct 3: Fiji v Canada
Sun Oct 8 Australia v Samoa
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff -3
Wed Sep 20: Wales v Tonga
Sat Oct 7: New Zealand v Wales
1 quarter-final
Murrayfield, Edinburgh - 3
Wed Sep 20: Scotland v Romania
Sun Sep24: Argentina v Scotland
1 quarter-final
RDS, Dublin - 3
Thurs Sep 21: Canada v Russia
Tues October 3 Georgia v Namibia
Sun Oct 8: ltaly v Tonga
Ravenhill, Belfast - 3
Sun Sep 17: France v Canada
Sun Oct 1: Scotland v USA
Sat Oct 7: South Africa v Russia
Pearse Stadium Galway - 3
Sun Sep 17: South Africa v Fiji
Sat Sep 23: ltaly v Japan
Sat Oct 7: Argentina v USA
Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney - 2
Mon Sep 25: Australia - Georgia
Fri Sep 29: South Africa v Canada
Nowlan Park, Kilkenny - 2
Sat Sep 16: USA v Romania
Tues Sep 26: Fiji v Russia
Celtic Park, Derry - 2
Wed 27 Samoa v Namibia
Mon Oct 2: Argentina v Romania
Re the Euro 2024 qualifiers:
Based on current UEFA scheduling, there would likely be two double header dates in early September and mid-October for the Euro 2024 qualifiers.
These would probably be: Friday September 8th/Tuesday September 12th, 2023, and Friday October 13th/Tuesday October 17th, 2023.
The Tuesday October 17th date would be possible in terms of hosting one of these matches at Lansdowne, as under my sample schedule the quarter-finals of the RWC would have been played by then and the next RWC match in Lansdowne would be the 3rd/4th place play-off on October 27th, giving 10 days of a gap, which would be fine, I think.
The likelihood is that the FAI would have to schedule the qualifiers in such a way as that Ireland would only have qualifiers on three of the four dates scheduled for September/October, and the double-date in September would have to comprise two away matches.
That’s definitely doable, I think.
What in the name of fuck?
That’s some amount of thought and work you’ve put into that.
Sidney, you haven’t allowed for the mooted expansion of the world cup to 24 teams. Also is it not a bit unfair to ask Tongan ans Romanian fans to trapse around all these venues and countries.
although he fails to mention that croke park would have to be upgraded and finished which makes the rest of his points as redundant as he is
Not sure it would need much work. Rugby world cups allow terraces.
when was the last time a final was played in a ground that wasnt covered and had terraces in it?
Sidney mentioned about all seaters for group games etc, but didnt NZ use grounds with grass banks last time out or did I imagine that?
Eden Park in NZ wasn’t covered in certain parts of the seating.
Temp seating could be put on the hill if required
Definitely had terraced stadia for group games. Final was all seater I think.