They want the right to rip a unborn child out of the womb. Bit by bit with a pliers
I would classify myself as that kind of person
Iâm undecided myself.
There are plenty of people like that actually. You gobble up Pro Choicer propaganda about it all being fundies who are against abortion.
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The whole abortion debate is an absolute joke for me when you can just skip across the Irish Sea, Iâm neither pro choice or anti because the whole thing is a charade, but itâs loonies that are delivering the leaflets with @anon26343222
In Fairness though you did imply that if one is anti abortion it is therefore because they are influenced by the Catholic Church. That is a very general statement.
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My apologies, I was referring to the people who deliver or handout literature but naturally there are exceptions, I donât believe for a second that @anon26343222 was being serious
The view that abortion is always wrong once conception takes place is very much a religious view. You will not find many non religious people who would deny a womanâs right to terminate a pregnancy in itâs early stages, in particular in the case of rape and fetal abnormalities.
Donât disagree with you on that one.
But I would consider myself a person of faith and would be very sympathetic to case of ffa, rape or incest and would not stand in the way of a woman choosing that option in the above scenarios. I do however have an issue with unrestricted abortion up to twelve weeks and I also have an issue with the oireachtas legislating on the issue without the possibility of anyone being able to challenge that legislation at supreme Court level
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Good post Mike.
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Happy to report that Batt and family will all be voting no to repealing the 8th. Looking forward on the following day to see Badchips, ORiordan, Boy Barret and their equals in the labour party crying into their cappuccinos at how backward Ireland is. A result like this coupled with the undoubted diminishing of Catholic influence has to be welcomed.
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Coppinger donât forget Coppinger
Did you have to remind me of that yokel and that ghoul Smith? They are a truly deplorable shower of cunts, the pro abortion side. Just replace every time they mention the word abortion with slavery and see how fucked up their ideas are.
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Sorry for this outburst at you this morning. It was uncalled for. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive me. Vilbox
There are few people who donât have a view on abortion, but many, many people in this country probably havenât thought the issue through in any meaningful way. There are people commenting here who clearly havenât thought it through, as seen by the often comically inept answers to simple questions, or inability to give any answers at all.
I would venture that the majority of people who will vote against repeal havenât thought their position through properly (Iâm sure there are plenty on the Yes side who havenât thought their position through either, but I expect itâs a smaller proportion).
I would also venture that almost no anti-repeal people would consider their views on abortion to be a fundamentalist one. Itâs rare that anybody considers their position on anything to be âfundamentalistâ, as it is such a pejorative word. Their views might fall anywhere from âIâm not comfortable with the idea of abortionâ to âabortion is nothing less than the systematic murder of babiesâ. They likely hold these views sincerely, I mean who doesnât hold views âsincerelyâ, but then again a lot of people hold stupid, ill-thought out views âsincerelyâ.
Itâs only when awkward questions are asked and awkward points are made that the more fundamentalist nature of being anti-repeal is exposed.
The 8th Amendment maintains that the right to life of a mother and the unborn are equal, âwhere practicableâ. That, by any logical conclusion, holds that the âunbornâ, from the moment of implantation (not conception â what constitutes the âunbornâ was undefined in the 8th Amendment and not defined until the 2013 Protection Of Life During Pregnancy bill), constitutes human life.
The âwhere practicableâ part is a straight up contradiction. Something is either equal or it isnât. Personally I have a good degree of sympathy for the view that the X Case ruling and the 2013 legislation were unconstitutional, from a completely different standpoint to anti-abortion campaigners, but thatâs by the by. The point is that the 8th Amendment is a fundamentalist clusterfuck of epic proportions which ties the hands of legislators in terms of providing safe, legal access to abortion in Ireland.
The fundamentalism only becomes apparent when we deal with the awkward question, awkward points and the contradictions.
On this forum we have had supporters of the 8th Amendment admit that they would support the right of a woman to have an abortion if she had been raped.
That position clearly violates the 8th Amendment.
If a supporter of the 8th Amendment belives that the unborn constitutes a human life, then they believe, by definition, that all abortion constitutes murder.
I consider this to be a fundamentalist position.
If they believe that abortion should be allowed in the case of rape, they believe, according to their own definition, that murder should be permitted in the circumstance of a pregnancy by rape.
If one believes that all abortion is murder, then the belief that abortion on grounds of rape should be allowed becomes a fundamentalist position which is fundamentally against that personâs own previously stated fundamentalist position.
None of those who say they would permit abortion on grounds of rape clarify what would constitute rape. Rape convictions are pretty much unheard of within 39 weeks, never mind 12 weeks, so, for these people, one has to presume that an allegation of rape would then be sufficient grounds to allow what they see as murder. No pro-8th Amendment posters who support allowing abortion on grounds of rape have explained what they think should happen if the allegation of rape which is given as grounds for the abortion fails to result in a conviction.
This is a deeply confused position.
If people believe that human life begins at conception, as Catholic teaching pronounces, and as many, perhaps most, anti-Repeal supporters believe, then, by definition, they must believe that any form of emergency contraceptive pill constitutes murder, because the morning after pill can stop the implantation of a fertilised egg in the uterus.
I consider this to be a fundamentalist position.
If they believe that abortion is murder, then they must believe that any woman who travels to another country to have an abortion, is according to their definition, travelling in order to facilitate murder.
I consider this to be a fundamentalist position.
Peter Mathews had a position that he undoubtedly believed wasnât fundamentalist. Yet when challenged by Vincent Browne, he was forced to admit that if he had a daughter carrying an unborn with a fatal foetal abnormality which could threaten his daughterâs health (as opposed to life), he would support her being forced to carry it to term, even if it resulted in permanent damage to her health (âwe all have to die some timeâ).
This was exposed as a fundamentalist position. Not permitting abortion where there is a threat to the health of the mother is a fundamentalist position, and it is enforced by the 8th Amendment.
Itâs not enough to blandly say âthese people are not fundamentalistâ. Most people who deal with the tough questions and think their positions through properly will realise theyâre not fundamentalist. The rest will remain fundamentally ignorant.
The Citizens Assembly have had time to consider all these awkward questions and think through their responses.
Thatâs why they recommended legal abortion.
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All anyone has to do is read this part and then dismisss your musings on, well, anything.
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Say a decade of the rosary for him
Very very very well reasoned post.
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Will do bro.