Youâre projecting your knowledge of rational peopleâs views about you again.
While it does show some hope for you in that you clearly have some tenuous concept of what rationality is, that doesnât mean that your post above is in any way rational.
I think youâll find quite a few people will agree your views are far from rational. Along with the grand leaps of âlogicâ you make (which are anything but), you spend your time projecting opinions and feelings on to others but due to a crippling lack of self awareness, are oblivious to this.
Your ripostes generally consist of repeating barbs aimed at you⌠Anyway youâd want your head examined listening or considering your views on any moral matters.
I will accept I havenât replied here on any of the specific points you raised above⌠but again see above, what you consider fundamentalism or logical follow ons are generally laughable (and except for a couple of posters, no one gives a fuck about your moralising)
Iâd suggest that you read art 40.3.3 again the read the Roche case
I would say very few people in Ireland these days have views on abortion which are fundamentalist, as in literal interpretation of scriptures or religious instruction. There are plenty examples where Irish Catholics are guided by their conscience, contraception, same sex marriage, etc. Abortion is a very difficult topic and itâs a bit simplistic to dismiss anti-abortion views as fundamentalist.
There is an argument against abortion which is humanist and has nothing to do with religion. Every zygote which is implanted in a uterus has a unique set of DNA and barring a miscarriage will become a human person. The argument is that it is morally wrong to deny this individual their right to their unique life. Itâs actually a pretty compelling argument, and anyone who considers this argument and states that donât feel some level of discomfort with it are likely not being honest.
The argument that convinces me to be pro-choice is that human lives are not created equal, either morally or legally. If we could go back in time and abort Hitler or Stalin, we would. We take freedom away from criminals, we make the decision to end the lives of people who are in a vegetable state, we have just wars where millions can be killed. I see abortion in the light, the health and well being of a woman trumps the right to life of an embryo/fetus.
Very very very well reasoned post and nicely summed up in that last piece.
Disagree with you. The notion that if you are against abortion that you are fundamentalist is too simplistic in my opinion. From my reading of this forum, itâs the pro abortion side that are being most dismissive by continously linking the anti abortion side to Catholic extremists.
I would be in favour of allowing abortion only in the cases of fatal foetal abnormalities or where there was a genuine risk to the PHYSICAL health of the mother. In all other circumstances I strongly believe that abortion is wrong. This isnât a view thatâs dictated to me by Catholicism, itâs my moral view, even though I guarantee that the pro abortionists will continue to dismiss and label the many who are totally uncomfortable with open abortion up to 12 weeks. However, it appears now that they are only going to give us a choice of black or white, unlimited abortion or none and I think thatâs wrong.
I also disagree with the argument being put across that because women are going across to England anyway that we should legalise it. I do have a huge amount of sympathy for these women but I donât think denying life to an unborn baby, or foetus or whatever you want to call it, is right.
And for those who say that up to this magical 12 week mark is grand as theyâre not really babies yet, try saying that to a woman who has miscarried a child before when they are 9 or 10 weeks old.
You and many others appear to very deeply give a fuck about my posts and my opinions, and itâs always delightful to find that I annoy you to such an extent.
Keep it up, mate, keep it up.
A refusal to logically tease through views on abortion without addressing the difficult points of the issue could be described as wilfully ignorant. Addressing the points and still holding the view that it should be banned can fairly be described as fundamentalist, religious or otherwise.
I donât think thereâs anybody who doesnât feel some level of discomfort with abortion, even if they support its legalisation. Abortion is almost never a decision that is arrived at lightly and itâs not as if anybody is shouting âgo abortion!â
I donât believe anybody should have the right to decide for a woman what she should do with her own body. The health and well being of a woman is a natural by-product of being able to make her own decision.
Itâs a fundamentalist view to want to deny women the right to control what happens to their own bodies, and itâs certainly fundamentalist by European and other western developed country standards.
The most vocal proponents of the No campaign will be the IONA Institute, which is a conservative Catholic advocacy organisation. Prominent figures in the Catholic church itself will undoubtedly also be involved. Itâs not anybody here whoâs linking them, they are linked, that is a fact.
I donât have a problem with people feeling âuncomfortableâ with abortion. I have a problem with them being able to deny women who are uncomfortable with continuing with a pregnancy from having an abortion.
Abortion on the grounds of a threat to the physical (non-suicide) health of the mother requires the 8th Amendment to be repealed.
Risk of suicide is already a grounds for abortion in this state.
That argument is not the main argument to legalise it. Itâs a background argument that rightly states that keeping abortion illegal in Ireland will not stop Irish women from having abortions. Britain has acted as a safety valve for five decades to let Ireland pretend that Irish women are not having abortions.
The main reason to legalise it is because women shouldnât be treated like second class citizens.
Nobody will be forcing women who want to have a baby to have an abortion.
A 12 week old foetus is the size of a lime. It is not yet a baby and has no sentience whatsoever.
At what stage of a pregnancy do you believe elective abortion should not be legally available?
You are criticizing the anti-abortion side for holding extremist views, while simultaneously supporting the bodily autonomy argument which is also an extremist position. This is where the extreme pro abortion side loses credibility as they (in particular modern day feminists) are unwilling or incapable of seeing how illogical the bodily autonomy argument is.
The problem with the bodily autonomy argument is it is an all or nothing. If a woman has complete control over her body, then you simply cannot argue for legal elective abortion up to a certain stage of pregnancy and ban it thereafter. Indeed this is the position of modern feminists on the subject, elective abortion should be allowed up to literally the day of birth, as if you legally restrict the right to abortion at any time the whole argument falls apart. There simply is no way to argue first trimester elective abortions should be legal because âitâs a womanâs right to decide what to do with her bodyâ, while also opposing second or even third trimester elective abortions.
The moral justification for abortion is the health and well being of the mother, but this has to be balanced with the rights of the developing fetus. The only logically consistent view is that a fetus achieves the legal status of a human person at some stage of development, and except in extreme medical emergencies itâs right to life thereafter trumps itâs motherâs right to an elective abortion.
Well done mate, youâre coming around to reason. The feminazis would have women not going for the morning after pill because theyâre too hungover, knowing they can just abort instead
Euthanasia happens everyday in Ireland.
Anyone who has had a loved one dying and is told, âget a good nights sleep, come back tomorrowâ or âitâs not longâ, and waitsâŚand the patient still alive (but fucked), then drifts offâŚ
Mad to think the patient usually survives til all the family members are presentâŚthen drifts off.
Iâm not knocking itâŚIâm just sayin.
And itâs called the morphine drip
Iâm not voting for this. For the first time ever, Im not voting, Iâm abstaining.
Iâve no right to tell a woman what to do with her body. Itâs up to her!
Thankfully England is only a hop skip and a bucket.
Nobody has the right to take someone elseâs life. That is all.
A few here have stated that they are pro abortion or that they wonât be voting because we have no right to tell a woman what to do with their bodies. If you take that view, women who have gone past menopause should not be voting. If you continue deeper with that view then women who donât agree with abortion shouldnât be voting because they are denying those who are pro choice the chance to have an abortion. In other words, only women who are in favour of abortion should vote if you use that rationale.
Look at another referendum and take this view, if you arenât homosexual then you shouldnât have voted on the gay marriage referendum as its not your business what homosexuals do with their lives.
That is one of the dumbest posts on this thread. Thats a fair achievement.
Itâs also fundamentalist to say that a man should be on the hook for 18 years in financing a child. No choice there.
The personâs body argument has never made much sense to me as we compel people to do all sorts on a daily basis, just a fact of life.