True but in the same way as Rock beats Scissors. Tipp would provide Kilkenny with a very different type of challenge.
Of course they will. Their odds are shorter as they have one game to win vs wex or tipp needing to win 2
An observation on the hurling championship two years into the current experiment.
So far we have had four different finalists and seven different semifinalists. Limerick are the only repeat semifinalists.
All of the semifinals have been decided by less than a puck of a ball.
There have been four different finalists.
Only Waterford , Dublin, Carlow and Laois have failed to reach the semi final. Only Waterford and Carlow have failed to make the knockout stages.
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Too small a sample. Kilkenny, Tipp, and Cork will dominate for next few years. They have a conveyor belt of talent coming through which results in stronger squads. Without the latter, it is very difficult to see other counties consistently outperforming the âbig 3â.
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I cast it as an observation not a statistical study. Of course the early years of the old back door were golden years of variety before the big 3 came to dominate but there was an element of the handy draw and easy routes about some of those years which doesnât exist now.
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Yeah. Big difference now is groups dont allow the big 3 to âpeakâ for semi and final. They have to peak earlier, cant afford to rest big players as groups at moment are very competitive with only a puck of a ball between most teams.
I think groups place more of an emphasis on depth of squads. I think big 3 have copped onto this and you can see evidence of squad building over last 12 months. As squads get stronger, I think a gap will emerge between big 3 and the rest. I could be well wrong of course.
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Another final between Tipp and Kilkenny. Has the GGA failed hurling? It hasnât spread beyond one region in Ireland
Kilkenny were flat out from the word go and Cork were shite.
All counties have copped the need to have a big panel but lack of quality players is the problem.
I think youâll find itâs the other regions in Ireland that have failed the GAA
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Thats my point, cork tipp and kilkenny will produce more of these players over next few years.
I would anticipate that squad depth will ultimately be the most crucial factor in assessing longer term trends in this latest new structure. That will ultimately favour the weight of numbers in playing depth that Kilkenny, Tipperary and Cork have always had. Itâs a 20 man game, not a 15 man game. You could see it there yesterday. Wexford had the bare 15, if even that. They lost two key players in Shaun Murphy and Rory OâConnor to injury late in the game and had nothing on the bench that was going to make an impact. Round about the same time Tipperary were emptying the bench with their five subs, most of them I think from the U20âs All Ireland winning team of last year and four of the five subs scored when they came on.
Itâs a large part of the reason why the Waterford team of the noughties couldnât get over the line. As @Fagan_ODowd illustrated recently, when they turned to the bench it was to the likes of Paul Foley and Paul OâBrien.
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Exactly and one of the main reasons Dublin are so dominant in football.
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Fair enough. Sad to think that after 125 years hurling hasnât spread
Itâs the same in most sports now. You see it in rugby all the time when New Zealand are playing the likes of Argentina and Wales and itâs still in the melting pot after an hour. New Zealand empty the bench and run in three or four tries in last few minutes and itâs suddenly a 25-30 point hammering. The IRB are reportedly looking at reducing the number of substitutes.
Itâs blindingly obvious in Gaelic football too. 2016 and 2017 All Ireland Finals case in point. Mayo starting XV better than Dublin for an hour, no bench for Mayo, in 2016 replay Dublin empty bench and one of their subs Cormac Costello kicks three points in last few minutes in a one point win. In 2017, Mayo look to have it again but it all falls away in last few minutes when the FOTY Andy Moran comes off.
With all the talk of splitting Dublin, funding allocation, structures of championships, developing hurling outside traditional Big 3, itâs amazing that reducing the number of subs never gets looked at.
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I think the introduction of development squads in all serious hurling counties has very much bridged the gap between the top three and everybody else. I would still expect the likes of Tipp, Cork and Kilkenny to be standard bearers due to sheer weight of playing numbers but I think the new system at adult level coupled with young players in the likes of Wexford. Clare, Galway, Limerick et al getting consistent top level coaching from their early teens rather than just relying on clubs to develop players means that the hemogeny is somewhat broken up.
Developmemt squads really kicked in in Munster bringing players through to minor level around a decade ago before that point Tipp and Cork utterly dominated the underage scene with the odd exceptional side from Clare, Limerick or Waterford winning a title once a decade or so. That is no longer the case now at minor and under 21 level where the gap is very much narrowed compared to what it was for the vast majority of the time in the history of the GAA.
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Tipperary and Kilkenny are going to lose a lot of key players over the next couple of years.
Both teams are still backboned by key players that were around in 2009. Much of the Kilkenny team was around in 2011 and most of it since 2014/15.
A point was made some time ago that Cork should get rid of a few lads that have been knocking around for a few years like Kearney. Unless you have almost an entire team of young players to bring in pretty much simultaneously like Limerick did over the last couple of years, you need to keep older players on board if you want to have a strong panel that can last through a round robin phase and potentially extra-time in knock out games.
Even with Limerick, it was Mulcahy and Dowling who were knocking around for a good few years that actually got them over the line.
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Ultimately, Wexford did not have the âforwardsâ to take advantage of the extra man. Teams that play with a sweeper never win by much and as such being down to 14 was not such a big disadvantage to Tipp as it would be against Galway, Cork or Kilkenny. Jake Morris would walk on that Wexford team but Tipp have the luxury of holding him in reserve.
Good points. Wexfordâs big problem in defence is Simon Donohoe. Not good enough but there is no one else as yet. Joe OâConnor is not remotely intercounty standard â and this truth showed.
I also think that sweeper system suits Wexford and the group of players they have to a tee. They were just a couple of players short imho. I hope Davy stays on as there is nothing to suggest that they could not go further in next year or two, while the championship remains open.
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