I keep predicting that Tipp will lose and they have kept proving me wrong- I’m gonna predict a loss here again- they have every chance of winning this but physically I just don’t think they will live with KK. Earlier in the year against us they were going for goals instead of tapping over the points and could have been out of sight, but when the game turned into a battle for the last ten minutes we blew them away. Like wise, when Dublin but together a 10 minute period when they got in Tipp’s faces the game was there for them but missed a peno and Tipp goaled the other end against the run of play- Cork didn’t get anywhere near the required intensity yesterday to comment- but still only went in at halftime 2 points down after Tipp did all the hurling- Which should be a worry.
Tipp’s backs are as good as anything in the country, and the performance of their midfield was a huge bonus for them yesterday and heading into this game but it will be a different animal they will be up against the next day… the problem for me is their forwards-On paper probably better then KK’s forwards, but they are still soft windy bastards and JJ and co will ate them if they persist with aimless ball in on top of them. On the flip side, where are the KK scores coming from? Yeah it was a desperate day the last day but they went long periods without scoring in the second half…This will be nothing like last year’s free scoring final, nor the previous trilogy of finals between these two but it will non-the-less be a titantic pysical struggle and one I expect KK to come out on top of. Cody will have had 4/5 weeks to get those returning from injury up to speed and I think that will make all the difference.
Tipp have a great chance here for me. The kilkenny backs are there to be got at. If they can curb the influence of TJ Reid and Richie Hogan they will go a long way to stopping Kilkenny.
Its Tipps to lose in my view. Dry day and teams play to form (i.e. 12 players perform to their standard) they should win.
Their backs are now seriously on form.
Darren Gleeson getting his confidence was the one major issue I had now removed
Personally I think he and a few more will go if they do win and why not? What a legacy regardless but to get the 10 would be immense- Half of these players will be in wheelchairs in ten years tho…
[QUOTE=“Kid Chocolate, post: 1002360, member: 553”]Its Tipps to lose in my view. Dry day and teams play to form (i.e. 12 players perform to their standard) they should win.
Their backs are now seriously on form.
Darren Gleeson getting his confidence was the one major issue I had now removed[/QUOTE]
Gleeson did very well and I’m not trying to downplay his contribution yesterday but it’s one thing doing accurate short puckouts to fellas in 20 yards of space not being tracked or hustled. It’s an entirely different thing to do it to a team that created the template for how to defend short puckouts with the added pressure of starting your first AI Final.
Seamus Hickey said it perfectly last night when he asked why Cork did not react after the 2nd short puckout. Allowing 7 or 8 of them in a half is criminal and highlights just how poor Cork were on the day both on the line and on the field.
This is a post I wrote 4 years ago. It’s a simplified view of how Kilkenny defend short pucks outs.
I imagine they will dust this off and add some new tricks to it by the time the All Ireland comes around.
yes, I don’t think tipp will even try that v KK, it would be suicide. Cork were a different matter, obvious lazy minded ball players in their forwards and withdrawing Cooper to cover for Ellis made a bad situation even worse.
What I meant re Gleeson was his command of the square and general confidence, different player to the league games and v Limerick when he was atrocious. Don’t see him as a weak link
[QUOTE=“cluaindiuic, post: 1002383, member: 258”]Gleeson did very well and I’m not trying to downplay his contribution yesterday but it’s one thing doing accurate short puckouts to fellas in 20 yards of space not being tracked or hustled. It’s an entirely different thing to do it to a team that created the template for how to defend short puckouts with the added pressure of starting your first AI Final.
Seamus Hickey said it perfectly last night when he asked why Cork did not react after the 2nd short puckout. Allowing 7 or 8 of them in a half is criminal and highlights just how poor Cork were on the day both on the line and on the field.
This is a post I wrote 4 years ago. It’s a simplified view of how Kilkenny defend short pucks outs.
I imagine they will dust this off and add some new tricks to it by the time the All Ireland comes around.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_IjAotuegZ6o/TEXlDcXc-JI/AAAAAAAAATc/Oaf520K7Glw/s800/cork%20vs%20kk.png[/QUOTE]
That is how Cork set up all year on puck outs - full forward line dropped back to mark space between full back line and half back line - no other team went for puck outs as it is high risk and you need to be accurate - Gleeson did very well yesterday but if he gets an off day it will implode and do they then go plan B (whatever that is)
If KK go man to man on puck outs at the start to force Gleeson long what happens?
In second half Cork heads dropped and they didn’t line up for puck outs to any extent
Cusack point was that in addition to that the forwards should move and not be static but in the first half I though Cork won a lot of ball driven long from Tipp back line which they were picking up from short puck outs
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1002389, member: 2272”]That is how Cork set up all year on puck outs - full forward line dropped back to mark space between full back line and half back line - no other team went for puck outs as it is high risk and you need to be accurate - Gleeson did very well yesterday but if he gets an off day it will implode and do they then go plan B (whatever that is)
If KK go man to man on puck outs at the start to force Gleeson long what happens?
In second half Cork heads dropped and they didn’t line up for puck outs to any extent
Cusack point was that in addition to that the forwards should move and not be static but in the first half I though Cork won a lot of ball driven long from Tipp back line which they were picking up from short puck outs[/QUOTE]
It’s one thing setting up this way. It’s another entirely to be proactive about constantly moving, blocking the line of sight, creating doubt in the goalkeepers mind and chasing the target like a dog the second the ball comes off the goalie’s hurl. It was a feeble imitation by Cork. If you think it was a Cork tactic to ease off the initial short puck out target in the hope that the second ball would be easier to win, fair enough, but that would be a crazy tactic to me.
Once Tipp had to put Bonner in the corner and had Bubbles, Ryan and Noel Mcgrath at half forward they should have had huge problems with puckouts as Bonner is the ball winner there. Cork never made any kind of impact in taking advantage of this and let Tipp off the hook when they should have been forced into hitting long into a weakened half forward line.
Tipp only scoring 1 point from a free is a damning indictment of how poor Cork were defensively. Cork couldn’t even get close enough to foul.
“Tipp only scoring 1 point from a free is a damning indictment of how poor Cork were defensively. Cork couldn’t even get close enough to foul.”
There is another possibility here
The main reason for the short puck-out yesterday was to get direct ball into the full-forward line rather than having to compete for it 50 yards from goal. Tipperary targeted Callanan on O’Neill yesterday. The easiest way to get quick ball in there is to go short on your own puckout to your half backs. They’ll then have the range to take the opposing half-back line out of it by driving it over their heads directly into the full-forward line.
Tipp managed to get the isolation required in there yesterday. Limerick did so too, to an extent, v KK as Dowling was in a lot of space inside. That surprised me as Kilkenny nearly always tend to play with Murphy and Tyrrell laying in parallel to JJ. I doubt they’ll make this error again in the final although they’ll have to set up for Noel McGrath playing as a 4th half-forward.
Tipp got this spot-on yesterday. It may not work the next day.
[QUOTE=“Kid Chocolate, post: 1002404, member: 553”]“Tipp only scoring 1 point from a free is a damning indictment of how poor Cork were defensively. Cork couldn’t even get close enough to foul.”
There is another possibility here[/QUOTE]
That Tipp were so good in an attacking sense that Cork couldn’t get near them?
That’s the whole issue with deciphering that game yesterday. It’s the classic “were Tipp that good or were Cork that bad” game.
I’m leaning towards the latter.
[QUOTE=“cluaindiuic, post: 1002398, member: 258”]It’s one thing setting up this way. It’s another entirely to be proactive about constantly moving, blocking the line of sight, creating doubt in the goalkeepers mind and chasing the target like a dog the second the ball comes off the goalie’s hurl. It was a feeble imitation by Cork. If you think it was a Cork tactic to ease off the initial short puck out target in the hope that the second ball would be easier to win, fair enough, but that would be a crazy tactic to me.
Once Tipp had to put Bonner in the corner and had Bubbles, Ryan and Noel Mcgrath at half forward they should have had huge problems with puckouts as Bonner is the ball winner there. Cork never made any kind of impact in taking advantage of this and let Tipp off the hook when they should have been forced into hitting long into a weakened half forward line.
Tipp only scoring 1 point from a free is a damning indictment of how poor Cork were defensively. Cork couldn’t even get close enough to foul.[/QUOTE]
Agree with all of that. Attitude and required work rate, intensity was not there. Similar to first Waterford game. No excuses for not working hard. It is fixable though. For whatever reason (and it happens in professional sports) their heads were not in it yesterday but at the business end there are no second chances.
[QUOTE=“cluaindiuic, post: 1002407, member: 258”]That Tipp were so good in an attacking sense that Cork couldn’t get near them?
That’s the whole issue with deciphering that game yesterday. It’s the classic “were Tipp that good or were Cork that bad” game.
I’m leaning towards the latter.[/QUOTE]
I saw 4 CLEAR frees in the first half that Tipp didn’t get
[QUOTE=“cluaindiuic, post: 1002407, member: 258”]That Tipp were so good in an attacking sense that Cork couldn’t get near them?
That’s the whole issue with deciphering that game yesterday. It’s the classic “were Tipp that good or were Cork that bad” game.
I’m leaning towards the latter.[/QUOTE]
Cork were that bad. If you watch first half again Cork won lots of ball but just couldn’t use it and when they did have it they hit 9 wides. Without Nash two frees it would have been even worse. Forwards were not moving at all and were static on basis everything was bombed down to Cronin
I think Tipp were fairly poor in first half but Cork were worse.
[QUOTE=“TheUlteriorMotive, post: 1002410, member: 2272”]Cork were that bad. If you watch first half again Cork won lots of ball but just couldn’t use it and when they did have it they hit 9 wides. Without Nash two frees it would have been even worse. Forwards were not moving at all and were static on basis everything was bombed down to Cronin
I think Tipp were fairly poor in first half but Cork were worse.[/QUOTE]
It’s a strange one- Tipp are in a final, on merit, but bar maybe Limerick earlier in the year they haven’t really been tested… Limerick have essentially won this All Ireland for Kilkenny after the kicking we gave them up and down the field the last day- If they bring the physicality they brought to the last ten minutes of the Limerick game they will murder Tipp.
I think you are overrating the Limerick Kilkenny game. The same case was put forward last yera ahead of the final that Cork would win it as they had come through two huge tests against Kilkenny and Dublin while Clare had only got there because Galway and Limerick under performed. I don’t think the semi final performances habe much bearing, both teams will be confident after their semi finals wins. Whichever team prepares better and is sharper on the day should win
I think it will be a low scoring affair compared to the last few AI’s. Defences on top. Tipps is a great unit, so is ours but every day is one day closer to JJ and Jackie getting the cleaning that so many have been predicting all these years.
Bonnar, Bubbles and Callinan are the big worries. Lar might need watching, I wouldn’t be concerned about McGrath, he has regressed woefully.
We’ll struggle to get scores off that back line, we will need big games from TJR and the Fennelly bros to win it. Midfield will be a tight affair tipps athleticism v Lil Richie pulling the strings and Fogarty doing the yard work. Breaking even will be a good day for either pair to be honest.
The goalies will be key, and yesterday was the first day I’ve seen Gleeson really put in an assured performance. Fair enough, he hadn’t a lot of trouble to deal with but he was calm and collected in what he did. The line in front of him are better for it too. We have a problem in that regard if Herity plays. The lads look more comfortable with Murphy behind them.
It could be tight, they have to beat us at some stage and this will be the perfect opportunity to throw the monkey off their backs. Add in the sweetener of denying Henry his 10th.
