[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1002411, member: 273â]You may be talking about just hurling, but Donegal and Kerry have certainly debunked that notion.
Cork are in a real conundrum now in the short term. The dual thing was a flop and it will never ever work well, ever again. Walsh has to pick a sport, he is integral to both teams. Cahalane has to as well. Hurling has only been an annoyance for Cadogan and I expect him to fully concentrate on football.
Its a real issue though as you are hurting the confidence of other fringe players by giving these guys special treatment. Another issue is now Walsh will be playing every week for the next 7 or 8 again with the club, there is no let up. Something has to be done to stagger the Cork championships or even seasonalize them where Hurling gets finished by August and football is played after.
As for yesterday, Cork looked over trained or over psyched up or both. These are very good hurlers and their touch was terrible and their pick up worse. Credit Tipp with some good pressure but a few of them were ridiculous, Kearney made 3 attempts at one puck up, Walsh the same but never got it up, Joyce the same and there was multiple double an single attempts failed. I think a combination of over training, being too wound up and not being properly prepared (or arguably respectful) for Tipp played a part. Not saying management did anything but prepare them for Tipp properly but it was reasonably evident that Cork expected it a bit easier than it was. The rushed shooting and poor decision making often indicated a fatigued team. Sounds sill and lads will say they had 5 weeks blaa blaa blaa, but those lads wonât realise the level most IC training is at now and they are all nearly always teetering on the brink of over training.
You play how you train.
On Tipp, their backs were superb and they destroyed Corks half forward line early on. This hurt the confidence. Their puck outs were good if ridiculously easy but I thought much of their forward play was haphazard and ignorant. They looked like a set of forwards at an old County Minor trial game. They did a lot of poor decision making and quite a bit of selfish play. Callinan was actually average enough except the match up suited him and only for Deyer having one of those days you really have to wonder what their mindset could have been at half time had anyone else been below par.
Anyway an obviously fully deserved win, but one built in a fantastic defensive display and a dreadful show from Cork. It wonât be enough in the final.[/QUOTE]
Donegal reached an All Ireland U21 final in 2010 and won an Ulster Minor Championship in 2006. Their All Ireland winning side mainly comprised of these players.
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1002440, member: 2272â]the minor/u21 theory is being picked apart here lads - Galway, Wexford - that is 33% of the teams who have won AIs in the time FFS sake
are we saying now that being beaten in provincial finals is also to be factored in if beaten by KK
Wexford won that AI in 96 so winning an u21 leinster in 97 is a stretch to relate to it
Are we saying that winning under age and U-21 means you will be a contender but not necessarily win an AI[/QUOTE]
Success breeds success mate- You obviously need a lot more factore than just winning a minor/u21 to be successful at senior but it certainly starts there.
I wonder how much of Galwayâs minor success over the years has been down to physical superiority over their opponents, which has to matter a lot at that level? I remember the 2011 minor semi-final against Clare that went to extra-time. Clare had the better hurlers but Galway outlasted them in extra-time due to their superior physical strength. Yet two years later a lot of that Clare team had senior All-Ireland medals.
Yet Galway have also produced a lot of handy-sized forwards over the years, some of who have made it to senior but often flattered to deceive (Cloonan, Broderick, Hayes, Farragher) and others who vanished (Kerrill Wade, Francis Forde). Theyâre an utterly baffling county.
That Limerick minor team in my view will backbone their senior team for a long time because they have pure hurlers rather having to rely on physical strength.
Iâd love to know what games Cyril Farrell is watching this year, âif Noel McGrath keeps up the kind of form that heâs shown all year, heâll have a major say in the final. Heâs an artist and definitely one of the best players in the countryâ In reality Noel McGrath has been poor this year and would be lucky to be starting if we had an alternative on the bench
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1002457, member: 273â]Deadly. Open your mind an have a think about it.
Iâm talking about Cork club scene now to clarify.[/QUOTE]
How many clubs compete in the senior championships in Cork in hurling and football respectively?
[QUOTE=âcaoimhaoin, post: 1002454, member: 273â]But itâs just been shown that in some cases it doesnât start there.
Cork have had quite a few decent underage teams but came up against particularly good Galway and Tipp teams.
As Sidney said, itâs a mind boggling over reaction.[/QUOTE]
Iâm not saying it is imperative- take the Limerick three u21s out of the equation- but when we have had relatively successful minors/u21s weâve gone on to bottle many AI finals
[QUOTE=âTheUlteriorMotive, post: 1002442, member: 2272â]A more obvious question is why have Kilkenny dominated for a decade in hurling.
Is it Cody or structures they have in place or some combination of the two?
If it is structures then that should be capable of replication in places like East Galway.[/QUOTE]
The simple answer is that this decade follows a period in which Kilkenny won 14 of the previous 15 Leinster minor hurling titles. Which in turn followed a period of intense introspection in Kilkenny when they were worried about their place in the hurling firmament and resolved to do something about it. It helps that they all pull in the same direction and are not riven by the rivalries and splits that dog other counties. They have had a succession of top quality county chairmen, whose only agenda appears to be Kilkenny winning everything in sight. On top of that it seems to be a relatively prosperous county and there doesnât seem to be an issue with finance. Nowlan park is a great example of what a sensible county should try to achieve for itself in terms of a ground, as well. No major outlays, just upgrading it every few years.
That and having the greatest hurling manager in history. A fellow who was booed by his own crowd in 1978 when he couldnât do the job he shouldnât have been expected to do, and so knows what a fickle bunch of gobshites hurling fans are and therefore doesnât pander to them.
[QUOTE=âSidney, post: 1002452, member: 183â]I wonder how much of Galwayâs minor success over the years has been down to physical superiority over their opponents, which has to matter a lot at that level? I remember the 2011 minor semi-final against Clare that went to extra-time. Clare had the better hurlers but Galway outlasted them in extra-time due to their superior physical strength. Yet two years later a lot of that Clare team had senior All-Ireland medals.
Yet Galway have also produced a lot of handy-sized forwards over the years, some of who have made it to senior but often flattered to deceive (Cloonan, Broderick, Hayes, Farragher) and others who vanished (Kerrill Wade, Francis Forde). Theyâre an utterly baffling county.
That Limerick minor team in my view will backbone their senior team for a long time because they have pure hurlers rather having to rely on physical strength.[/QUOTE]
In fairness to kerril wade I think it was a back injury that finished him.
I think the point made by @Fagan ODowd is that underage success does not guarentee senior success but you cannot have senior success without having some form of relative success and talent at underage
If you look at the list of All Ireland minor winners in the fifties, it becomes apparent why Tipp were such a force in the 60s. If you look at the list of minor winners for the sixties it comes as no surprise to discover that they had a very difficult 70s.
MINOR
09 July 2006
DonegalâŚâŚ2-12
AntrimâŚâŚâŚ1-5
Donegal: L McFadden; D Walsh, S Boyle, M McGowan; P McGinley(0-1), L McLonne, P Thornton; [B]R Wherity/B, M Murphy(0-3); M McElhinney(2-0), D Molloy(0-3, sf), E Waide(0-3); B Faherty, G Ward; D Gallagher(0-1). Subs: De McGarvey for Ward, B Shovlin for Wherity; J Carroll for Faherty
U21
Donegal: P Boyle, E Doherty, C Boyle, P McGrath, D Walsh, T McKinley, C Classon, K Mulhern, D Curran, M McHugh, M Murphy (1-2, 1f), D Molloy (0-5, 4f), J Carroll, L McLoone, A McFadden. Substitutes: C Morrison (0-1) for McFadden (28), D Murphy for McKinley (28), C McGinley for Carroll (63), S OâKennedy for Curran (67)
