All Ireland Senior Football Championship 2014

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949443, member: 273”]Astute managers can make changes within a game that can turn a game, he is not known for that.
Astute managers don’t fall out with top players in a small county.
Astute managers don’t contradict themselves continually in the press.
Astute managers don’t alienate assistants and underhand insult them in public despite them having given up a lot of time and having won together.
Astute managers don’t have huge who’s.[/QUOTE]
This time last year McGuinness was the oracle as far you were concerned. Now you’ve completely flip-flopped on him.

He’s not the oracle, because nobody is, but to state the bleeding obvious, he is very tactically astute, as astute as they come. You do realise he took a team that got thrashed by 15 or 20 points by Armagh in the first round of the qualifiers and won two Ulster titles and the All-Ireland with them in two years, and won the All-Ireland probably more convincingly than any team in the last six years? He made a bit of a tit of himself last year but he knew right well Donegal were playing well below 2012 levels so was prepared to resort to anything to get a response from them. The reality is that there isn’t a manager out there that would have been able to keep them at 2012 levels last year.

Don’t be a fucking moron all your life. Last week you were on about the talent Donegal have.
Donegal have some fantastic footballers, you don’t win an AI without them.

[QUOTE=“The Scouse Cafu, post: 949501, member: 2660”]This time last year McGuinness was the oracle as far you were concerned. Now you’ve completely flip-flopped on him.

He’s not the oracle, because nobody is, but to state the bleeding obvious, he is very tactically astute, as astute as they come. You do realise he took a team that got thrashed by 15 or 20 points by Armagh in the first round of the qualifiers and won two Ulster titles and the All-Ireland with them in two years, and won the All-Ireland probably more convincingly than any team in the last six years? He made a bit of a tit of himself last year but he knew right well Donegal were playing well below 2012 levels so was prepared to resort to anything to get a response from them. The reality is that there isn’t a manager out there that would have been able to keep them at 2012 levels last year.[/QUOTE]
Yes I changed my mind on him, as he has shown that power and success has changed him(or shown the real side). It’s called ignorence to stick to an old opinion despite new evidence just because you don’t want to be seem changing your mind. I flagged every idiotic episode with McGuinness as they came.
At the time I said if his training regime was to be believed his team would break down physically, they did.
I like everyone else thought he did a great job turning them around, but he had some serious footballers to work with.
He embarrassed himself last year and has fallen out with half of Donegal. Now that’s not very astute in any mans language, especially in an county organized sport.
Astute people don’t show their arrogance to the world. There are a lot if people in Donegal now who want him to fail, that’s hardly very astute is it?
Where was the plan last year when things unravelled against Mayo?
Why is McHugh gone?

Donegal have the players to play a faster game closer to Dublin, Cork, Mayo but I don’t think he has the balls to bring them that way.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949693, member: 273”]Don’t be a fucking moron all your life. Last week you were on about the talent Donegal have.
Donegal have some fantastic footballers, you don’t win an AI without them.[/QUOTE]

Show me a post where I was on about the talent Donegal have - don’t dodge this - back up your claim.

Donegal do not have the depth of individual talent many other counties have, man for man there are much better teams out there but it’s the system and discipline they play with that makes them so effective - no the individual talent they contain?

Must you propagate utter lies and misrepresentations in every post you make?

[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 949706, member: 2533”]Show me a post where I was on about the talent Donegal have - don’t dodge this - back up your claim.

Donegal do not have the depth of individual talent many other counties have, man for man there are much better teams out there but it’s the system and discipline they play with that makes them so effective - no the individual talent they contain?

Must you propagate utter lies and misrepresentations in every post you make?[/QUOTE]
You can have all the systems in the world, but if you don’t have McFadden, Murphy and McBrierty scoring it’s not worth a fuck. If you don’t have Lacey mopping up and distributing with precision you have nothing.

You are clearly on a WUM. So I’ll leave you at it.

[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 949314, member: 1”]This could just become a silly argument about semantics but arguing McGuinness isn’t astute seems strange. He has transformed a team largely because of a tactical change. Whether that is a little predictable or not is debatable but there aren’t many managers who have done much comparable to him recently.

Other than Jim Gavin, who is an astute manager?[/QUOTE]
Jack O Connor is the most astute around in a while. Most others create systems, but once they fail they don’t have anything else to go to.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949737, member: 273”]You can have all the systems in the world, but if you don’t have McFadden, Murphy and McBrierty scoring it’s not worth a fuck. If you don’t have Lacey mopping up and distributing with precision you have nothing.

You are clearly on a WUM. So I’ll leave you at it.[/QUOTE]

I see you failed to back up the lie you alleged me to have said. Donegal have some very good players but there are about 6-7 counties with a much stronger panel of better players available to them both past and present. It’s the system that makes them as effective as they have been under McGuinness. This is also not to mention the circus that the Donegal county team had been before he took over.

The fact you have to throw out lies to aid your case really shows how out of your depth you are when it comes to debating and making rational and insightful points.

You are a spoofer who has a problem remembering what you said most of the time because it’s done on a whim and it comes out your arse.

[QUOTE=“Rocko, post: 949314, member: 1”]This could just become a silly argument about semantics but arguing McGuinness isn’t astute seems strange. He has transformed a team largely because of a tactical change. Whether that is a little predictable or not is debatable but there aren’t many managers who have done much comparable to him recently.

Other than Jim Gavin, who is an astute manager?[/QUOTE]
Rocko fishing for praise here and no one biting.

Rocko is an astute manager.

[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 949741, member: 2533”]I see you failed to back up the lie you alleged me to have said. Donegal have some very good players but there are about 6-7 counties with a much stronger panel of better players available to them both past and present. It’s the system that makes them as effective as they have been under McGuinness. This is also not to mention the circus that the Donegal county team had been before he took over.

The fact you have to throw out lies to aid your case really shows how out of your depth you are when it comes to debating and making rational and insightful points.

You are a spoofer who has a problem remembering what you said most of the time because it’s done on a whim and it comes out your arse.[/QUOTE]
Let’s take out Cork and Dublin. What other 5 counties have more talent than Donegal.

Tyrone, Kerry, Monaghan and I feel there could be strong arguments about Derry, Kildare and Meath having individual players as good as Donegal have available to him. Interesting that you would put Cork in at no.2 in terms of natural talent, pretty ridiculous in all honesty. I also note there has still be no accountability for the rubbish you spouted earlier - making comments accusing me of saying things I did not - a real man would at least have the courage to address that.

I’m not traipsing thru your shite to find anything, I actually have a life.

Monaghan, Kildare, Derry, Meath, Tyrone :D:D:D:D:D
I’d say you couldn’t name 5 Kildare or Meath players off top of your head FFS.
Outside if Gooch who is out anyway, donegal have
more individuals who would make a combined Kerry/ Donegal team. I’d take 5 Donegal backs and 3 forwards straight off the bat.

In the annals of sad cunts on here you are climbing to the top. Only flano is ahead really.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949782, member: 273”]I’m not traipsing thru your shite to find anything, I actually have a life.

Monaghan, Kildare, Derry, Meath, Tyrone :D:D:D:D:D
I’d say you couldn’t name 5 Kildare or Meath players off top of your head FFS.
Outside if Gooch who is out anyway, donegal have
more individuals who would make a combined Kerry/ Donegal team. I’d take 5 Donegal backs and 3 forwards straight off the bat.

In the annals of sad cunts on here you are climbing to the top. Only flano is ahead really.[/QUOTE]

You can’t find it because I never said it, unlike you I have an informed mind and generally make intelligent posts. You are an unintelligent, hot-headed fool who goes around shouting his mouth off but is too much of a coward to stand behind his words when he is called out. This is a prime example.

You are once again failing to grasp the point behind Donegal’s success, how many of their defenders would look good playing the way Kerry do? I’m not saying Donegal don’t have good defenders but do we really know how good they would be playing in a different defensive set-up. I think it’s clearly obvious you are far too thick to understand a point that most people generally gather.

Woah woah woah, Kildare? Are you on drugs? Who?

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949703, member: 273”]Yes I changed my mind on him, as he has shown that power and success has changed him(or shown the real side). It’s called ignorence to stick to an old opinion despite new evidence just because you don’t want to be seem changing your mind. I flagged every idiotic episode with McGuinness as they came.
At the time I said if his training regime was to be believed his team would break down physically, they did.
I like everyone else thought he did a great job turning them around, but he had some serious footballers to work with.
He embarrassed himself last year and has fallen out with half of Donegal. Now that’s not very astute in any mans language, especially in an county organized sport.
Astute people don’t show their arrogance to the world. There are a lot if people in Donegal now who want him to fail, that’s hardly very astute is it?
Where was the plan last year when things unravelled against Mayo?
Why is McHugh gone?

Donegal have the players to play a faster game closer to Dublin, Cork, Mayo but I don’t think he has the balls to bring them that way.[/QUOTE]
My opinion on McGuinness is quite nuanced, Kevin. I like nuance. He clearly has a rather large ego, and he’s definitely a bit of a cunt. He’s made judgement calls that I didn’t like, but that’s his prerogative and in a county like Donegal he clearly felt, and perhaps with some justification, that he had to make them. He’s not worried about falling out with people because he’s single-minded in pursuit of success and has seen where previous Donegal management teams have fallen down.

Nobody’s arguing that you can’t change your mind about things. What you’ve done is you have gone from being a true believer to believing that Donegal’s failure last year completely invalidates his success before that, which is very obviously not the case.

Astute people come with all sorts of personalities and make all sorts of mistakes too. Pat Gilroy would now be seen as a tactically astute manager, yet he presided over the worst collapse in Dublin football history and a five goal thrashing by Meath. He never got the Dublin team to even look at a video of what happened against Tyrone in 2008 and was powerless to explain what happened against Kerry in 2009, apart from calling his team “startled earwigs”. He didn’t look very astute at the time.

Lots of astute people show their arrogance to the world. Jose Mourinho has shown plenty of astuteness over the years but shows a lot more arrogance. Is Rupert Murdoch astute? Is he a cunt?

Why is McHugh gone? Perhaps he doesn’t have the appetite for it. He’s about 24 and perhaps feels that he wants to do something else with his life for a while.

Who, in your view would have got Donegal to challenge for an All-Ireland last year? 2012 was their second ever All-Ireland. One All-Ireland is seen as an end in itself in a county like Donegal. One team in the last 24 years has retained the title. It was rather predictable that they wouldn’t be near the same force last year, given the necessary sacrifices that that inter-county GAA players have to make in order to be successful.

Donegal have some excellent players (I’d say probably four are genuine top class players - Murphy, McFadden, Lacey, McGlynn - and in the case of McFadden and McGlynn they would not have been regarded as top class when McGuinness took over) but that can be said of lots of counties. I certainly don’t think their talent pool stands out in Ulster and is well behind Dublin and Cork. I don’t believe they have near the capacity to play like Dublin. What McGuinness has done is implement a system. The system instilled discipline in the players. Then it bred confidence. The confidence made the players better. Then the better players made the system better and enabled them to refine it. It’s a virtuous circle.

Very good post Sid. Astute even.

[QUOTE=“caoimhaoin, post: 949737, member: 273”]You can have all the systems in the world, but if you don’t have McFadden, Murphy and McBrierty scoring it’s not worth a fuck. If you don’t have Lacey mopping up and distributing with precision you have nothing.

You are clearly on a WUM. So I’ll leave you at it.[/QUOTE]
McBrearty hasn’t done nearly enough over the last three years to be considered a top class player. He may develop into one over time but in the 2011-2013 period he was not top class.

Mayo. Kerry and Tyrone have more and Galway, Down, Meath, Derry, Monaghan, and perhaps even Armagh would at least be at a comparable level.

O’Connor is astute but had probably the most naturally gifted panel of players in the history of the game at his disposal. He was comfortably out-thought by Mickey Harte in 2005 and by McGuinness in 2012.

I think we should recap a few of Kevin’s contributions to this thread over the past 24 hours.

[LIST]
[]Monaghan rely on Conor McManus for over 50% of their scores
[
]An understrength drubbing for Kerry at the hands of Cork in a meaningless league game will have done them untold mental damage
[]A drubbing for a virtually full strength Cork side who led by 10 points at one stage to Dublin in a game of some mean will have brought them on a lot
[
]Jim McGuinness is not an astute manager
[]Donegal don’t rely on their system and have the third best talent pool in Ireland
[
]Ronan O’Neill is an average county forward
[]Aidan Walsh is a superior footballer to Neil Gallagher
[
]Last week I was on about the talent that Donegal have (which I wasn’t)
[/LIST]

[QUOTE=“Il Bomber Destro, post: 949929, member: 2533”]I think we should recap a few of Kevin’s contributions to this thread over the past 24 hours.

[LIST]
[]Monaghan rely on Conor McManus for over 50% of their scores
[
]An understrength drubbing for Kerry at the hands of Cork in a meaningless league game will have done them untold mental damage
[]A drubbing for a virtually full strength Cork side who led by 10 points at one stage to Dublin in a game of some mean will have brought them on a lot
[
]Jim McGuinness is not an astute manager
[]Donegal don’t rely on their system and have the third best talent pool in Ireland
[
]Ronan O’Neill is an average county forward
[]Aidan Walsh is a superior footballer to Neil Gallagher
[
]Last week I was on about the talent that Donegal have (which I wasn’t)
[/LIST]
[/QUOTE]
Continuing my theme of nuance, I think some of that is on the mark (ie the Aidan Walsh point) and some of it is complete rubbish (most of the rest). My opinion would be nuanced on the point about Cork benefitting from their collapse against Dublin.