History has a habit if repeating itself
[quote=“Fran, post: 820223, member: 110”]It would be a big mistake to put Murphy, a player coming back after a lengthy absence, on Kelly.
Cork should have learned this from Kilkenny playing unfit players against them.
Kelly would run him ragged.[/quote]
Lads Murphy has been training since 2 weeks after injury and has played 2 hurling games since.
If Kelly plays the same role as the last day I could see McLoughlin taking him.
While previous generations of Clare teams most certainly would have struggled against Cork sides and would have been 4 or 5 points down before a ball was pucked in this current side doesn’t have the same hang ups or fear of the Cork jersey. Aside from Bugler, Donnellan and Fergal Lynch the rest of the panel would have been used to beating Cork at underage level and they don’t have the same inferiority complex of the Clare sides from yesteryear who would have routinely taken hammering off Cork and Tipp all the way up through the grades
Cork to their credit got it tactically spot on against Clare in the Gaelic Grounds but as I said on here that game has been completely overanalysed, Clare had a hat full of goal chances they didn’t take and with everyone they missed their heads dropped further while Cork grew in confidence. Once Cork levelled early in the second half there was only going to be one winner, most of the handling errors, poor executon of passes came in the last 25 minutes when the game was gone due to the goal chances not being taken and Cork had their danders up and punished them. I would expect Clare to perform on the day and it will take a very good performance from Cork to win.
A big factor on All Ireland Final day is how the respective managers handle the occasion and deflect the pressure from the players. There are few in the history of the game who have handled All Ireland Final day as player and manager well as JBM. You think back to some of the great performances he delivered as a player, the two goals he got as a teenager in the 1973 Football Final, the match winning switch of JBM onto Mick Jacob for the last 10 minutes of the 76 final. The winning goal to seal the three in a row in 1978. Masterminding the 1999 win over Brian Cody’s, Kilkenny.
Credit to Davy for getting the tactics right over Limerick on Sunday, very similar to the ambush his Waterford team sprung on raging hot favourites Tipperary in the 2008 semi final. All Ireland Final day though brings a different type of pressure and no manager in living memory has probably dealt with All Ireland Final day as badly as Davy did in 2008. Even as a player, Davy won 2 from 3 All Ireland Finals, but on a personal level, his playing experiences were mixed. There was that howler of a goal he conceded to Michael Duignan in the 1995 final. There was the save from a poorly struck John Leahy shot in the dying seconds of the 1997 final, but his failure to command his square was a big factor in Eugene O’Neill and Liam Cahill’s goals. Davy’s positioning was poor for the early DJ Carey goal in the 2002 final, which effectively decided the game.
You just know JBM will take it all in his stride on 8 September. The hope would be that Davy has learnt from past mistakes but you just couldn’t be confident in that regard.
[quote=“chewy louie, post: 820231, member: 1137”]While previous generations of Clare teams most certainly would have struggled against Cork sides and would have been 4 or 5 points down before a ball was pucked in this current side doesn’t have the same hang ups or fear of the Cork jersey. Aside from Bugler, Donnellan and Fergal Lynch the rest of the panel would have been used to beating Cork at underage level and they don’t have the same inferiority complex of the Clare sides from yesteryear who would have routinely taken hammering off Cork and Tipp all the way up through the grades
Cork to their credit got it tactically spot on against Clare in the Gaelic Grounds but as I said on here that game has been completely overanalysed, Clare had a hat full of goal chances they didn’t take and with everyone they missed their heads dropped further while Cork grew in confidence. Once Cork levelled early in the second half there was only going to be one winner, most of the handling errors, poor executon of passes came in the last 25 minutes when the game was gone due to the goal chances not being taken and Cork had their danders up and punished them. I would expect Clare to perform on the day and it will take a very good performance from Cork to win.[/quote]
So you are going to ignore Cork beating Clare and go completely on Clare’s performance against Limerick (who completely collapsed). Not to mention Cork winning the game of the season.
It’s extremely funny to see the Clare lads acting like the Limerick lads were, only trying to hide it slightly.
It’s a pretty remarkable win for either team. After watching it again its hard to get a gauge on the game in terms of how bad Limerick were. Clare were very very good though.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820239, member: 273”]So you are going to ignore Cork beating Clare and go completely on Clare’s performance against Limerick (who completely collapsed). Not to mention Cork winning the game of the season.
It’s extremely funny to see the Clare lads acting like the Limerick lads were, only trying to hide it slightly.
It’s a pretty remarkable win for either team. After watching it again its hard to get a gauge on the game in terms of how bad Limerick were. Clare were very very good though.[/quote]
I am not ignoring Cork and made no mention of the Clare v Limerick game. I said the exact same thing before the Clare v Galway game three weeks ago. Clare’s performance that day was completely overanalysed, it was simply a case of a young side who lost their way on the day. The majority of the mistakes with regards to passes breaking down and being intercepted which people harp on about came after we had missed half a dozen goal chances and lads realised the game was gone away from them.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820239, member: 273”]So you are going to ignore Cork beating Clare and go completely on Clare’s performance against Limerick (who completely collapsed). Not to mention Cork winning the game of the season.
It’s extremely funny to see the Clare lads acting like the Limerick lads were, only trying to hide it slightly.
It’s a pretty remarkable win for either team. After watching it again its hard to get a gauge on the game in terms of how bad Limerick were. Clare were very very good though.[/quote]
The Clare lads are as giddy as fuck. They remind me of Loughnane and co. singing in side in the dressingroom at half time in the 78 Munster final. JBM wasn’t long putting an end to that tune.
Half a dozen chance now 
Too much:pint:
Is this place just wall to wall with drunks or what?
They never learn
What has you so confident so if you are not using the Clare performance last Sunday a a barometer? You are solely basing Clare being (your) favorites for the Final on the game they lost to Cork, and it was all down to Clare’s mistakes and nothing Cork did?
This is going to be a funny 3 weeks.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820245, member: 273”]Half a dozen chance now
[/quote]
Yip, fairly obvious to anyone watching it.
First half
Tony Kelly’s penalty
Conor McGrath was clean through on Nash but failed to rise the ball with two attempts
Honan had an effort from 15 yards that went narrowly over the crossbar
Podge Collins mishitting a pull from a few yards out
Early in the Second half
Honan from the left hand side pulled a good save out of Nash
& a few minutes later McGrath turned his man and hit the outside of the post with the goal at his mercy
[quote=“chewy louie, post: 820231, member: 1137”]
Cork to their credit got it tactically spot on against Clare in the Gaelic Grounds but as I said on here that game has been completely overanalysed, Clare had a hat full of goal chances they didn’t take and with everyone they missed their heads dropped further while Cork grew in confidence. Once Cork levelled early in the second half there was only going to be one winner, most of the handling errors, poor executon of passes came in the last 25 minutes when the game was gone due to the goal chances not being taken and Cork had their danders up and punished them. I would expect Clare to perform on the day and it will take a very good performance from Cork to win.[/quote]
I’d agree, I think Cork got things very right in the Gaelic Grounds. Despite the fact that we were notionally playing a support game, the contrast in organisation and distribution between the two sides was really stark that day. Cork’s support play was vastly superior and they made scoring chances an awful easier too.
In truth though, most of the problems Cork exposed with our setup were exposed against Waterford as well. We were pretty poor for 40-50 minutes and the strong finish drew attention away from some serious weaknesses. Cork were just more clinical and as you say, we missed the goal chances that we took against Waterford.
The most simple and most effective change in our game since then is how much more aggressive we are with the ball in our own half now. Our support play still has weaknesses, but we have lads driving forward with the ball, beating opponents and creating overlaps now instead of constantly trying to makes passes that aren’t on in dangerous situations. We still make mistakes, but I think we’re a lot harder to bottle up at the back than we were at the beginning of the championship.
The reality is that this team is really dangerous if they can consistently work the ball beyond their own 45 because from 8-15 they are full of running, are very quick, and they have the skill level. Cork have turned into a serious outfit from 8-15 themselves and for that reason I think we’re going to struggle to keep them to a manageable score, but I think it’s going to be a very different Clare performance to the one we delivered back in June. Cork might win a shoot-out, but I don’t see them being able to suffocate us.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820247, member: 273”]What has you so confident so if you are not using the Clare performance last Sunday a a barometer? You are solely basing Clare being (your) favorites for the Final on the game they lost to Cork, and it was all down to Clare’s mistakes and nothing Cork did?
This is going to be a funny 3 weeks.[/quote]
I am basing it on the fact that Clare have changed the balance of the side and also have made changes to the style of their hurling since the Cork game and that both management and players are now in a far better place. I never said that Clare were favourites for the final and I never said that they will win, all I said was that Clare will perform on the day, of that I have little doubt as they have certainly turned a corner and the form, fitness, confidence and touch of the players in the Galway, Limerick and Tipp under 21 match is exactly where you want it to be this time of year. The fact that they are far more suited to the open spaces in Croke Park is also a big plus.
It will take a very good performance from Cork to win this game as opposed to Clare bottling it or dropping their heads like last June which made it easy for Cork in the end who as I said had their matchups and tactics right on the day.
Every game is a completely different battle so comparing back to June in many ways is futile. Both teams have improved massively since then. Clare had Cork beat out the gate that day but heads dropped, as happens now and again with young teams, and Cork sensed blood and put them away. The pace of that game was way off championship fare also and for everything Clare have done great up to now, they’ve been allowed dictate their games. Cork have had the harder route and have been pushed all the way in both games since Munster, adding some steel to their game, but Clare likewise, will not be dropping heads so easily this time. Clare also have a better bench, and I think with the pace this game will be played at this could make a difference. But If Clare give up as much ball as they did against Limerick I can’t see Cork being so wasteful but likewise, everything Clare hit the other day was perfect, another day like that and they will be hard bet. It really is a tough call, The midfield battle is going to be great here also… but overall, I think Cork will just shade it on the day. Clare’s half back line are their Achilles heel and I expect the Cork hf line to take them to the cleaners.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820230, member: 273”]Lads Murphy has been training since 2 weeks after injury and has played 2 hurling games since.
If Kelly plays the same role as the last day I could see McLoughlin taking him.[/quote]
Mcloughlin or Joyce will be nominated to pick him up. Won’t matter to either of them if he goes midfield or CF they have both played mf and cb this season. I’d go for Joyce personally. McL more of a scoring threat
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 820239, member: 273”]
It’s a pretty remarkable win for either team. After watching it again its hard to get a gauge on the game in terms of how bad Limerick were. Clare were very very good though.[/quote]
Think this was main thrust of my point on other thread. LK were shocking and Clare gave em 40 odd scoring chances. That’s fkn loose enough. They were excellent on the ball but you can’t cede that much possession to any half decent team
What a load of cock.
Clare have plenty of skillful youngsters but there backs and goalie are nothing special really. The gave waterford a good few chances they couldnt take, drew with wexford and beat a galway team who couldnt care and a Limerick team that froze, both teams freetakers having nighmares, so its not like they were marked out of it. Theyre talented but nothing special, they play a loose fast game that looks great but has little physicality, plenty of harrying but they would be bullied by kk or dublin, the goal they got the last day was soft and they didnt create many more chances. It might well be enough to beat cork if cork dont perform but you could see tipp beating clare by twelve points easily enough in munster next year. The standard is two levels below the champions of the past four years or so.
Couldn’t really disagree with most of that. Remember that had the frees gone over Limerick would have been level a few mins into the second half, and Limerick had more than enough possession to get themselves back in the game, Cork probably won’t be as wasteful. Clare looked phenomenal the last game but a lot went right for them. At the end of the day Limerick missed 4 handy frees and Clare got a poxy goal -Clare won by 7.
Cork also looked good in their last two games -but played v 14 men for each. Whatever about kk I don’t believe they’d have beaten Dublin without the sending off.
Question marks remain over both teams.
[quote=“glasagusban, post: 820360, member: 1533”]Couldn’t really disagree with most of that. Remember that had the frees gone over Limerick would have been level a few mins into the second half, and Limerick had more than enough possession to get themselves back in the game, Cork probably won’t be as wasteful. Clare looked phenomenal the last game but a lot went right for them. At the end of the day Limerick missed 4 handy frees and Clare got a poxy goal -Clare won by 7.
[/quote]
Limerick would have been level going down the stretch then as well, Dowling and Downes would have put those goal attempts over and Limerick would have won by 2. Have ye looked into the possibility of a replay?