Low level manufacturing jobs are never coming back, and are being / will be replaced by robots. Higher technology products need to be protected (and yes thatâs capitalism, protection of IP is fundamental to capitalism).
You simply have no clue on this subject and should gracefully exit, although thatâs impossible for you.
You are completely out of your depth and just repeating sound bites you read on rubbish Twitter feeds.
The countries that will do well are those that encourage innovation and business, protect their IP and retain control of manufacturing for high value products. Thatâs what the battle between the US and China is about, and itâs a battle worth fighting. Unless you support China which is quite possible in your case.
The UK are one of the larger medium sized economies. There are now two + large economies in the world.
The UK are a trading nation. That is what made their Empire a success, as well as the obvious pillaging. It has been what has allowed them to maintain a strong economic position in the 20th century.
The UK is full of âvisionaryâ leaders. That is what Brexit was all about. Liam Fox talking âGlobal Britainâ, then getting the job as Trade Czar and now sacked because after a couple of years in the job, he realises what utter horseshit it is without a soft Brexit and is gone for no longer espousing the Kool Aid. Michael Gove, a genuine True Believer in Brexit for years but someone who has gone against the No Deal fantasty, has been put in this weird holding position designed to stop him talking sense into those True Believers.
Boris Johnson is full of vision. The man is a journalist and writer of half baked historic biographies. The Brexiteers have turned to the man who once upon a time advise the EU to let Turkey in, then used it as a scare tactic. The man who once said that weâd have to invent the EU if it didnât exist. The man who wrote two columns on Brexit, one for and against, whilst he decided which way would get him quicker into number 10.
You make these statements about âvisionaryâ leaders, but please now put your cards on the table. Your post 3 years ago claimed the EU would capitulate to the UK. They didnât and the UK blinked. Do you now support a hard Brexit? Is that the vision you are talking about?
Iâve never said low end manufacturing jobs are coming back. You should really stop embarrassing yourself as you have zero clue on this subject matter, and canât differentiate between low end and high end products and technology. As one would expect from someone whoâs sole accomplishment is writing a few sports articles.
US manufacturing is in very good shape overall, has been growing steadily since the last downturn and has accelerated since 2016. The focus is on development and protection of high technology products as it should be. Compared to Europe, the US is in great shape, growth of +2%, incomes rising, low unemployment. Europe in contrast is stagnating at zero growth and high unemployment in many countries. Why do you think that is?
You once cited on here that Ireland were fine with the UK leaving when you quoted the number of exports to Brussels saying we exported more to Belgium than the UK. When I pointed out the reality of those exports, you ran off.
Yet it doesnât make sense in your whole the âEU is a failureâ argument. Ireland wholly relied on the UK for decades post Independence. Your (incorrect) argument on the UK leaving without agreement was that Ireland traded more to the likes of Belgium so it was fine. So would you say the EU was a failure then? For Ireland, the country that post EU membership, drastically increased their exports elsewhere?
There are no visionary leaders in the UK. If there had been they would have fulfilled the democratic will of the people and negotiated the best possible exit deal with the EU. As one of the few countries that are net contributors to the EU budget, they were in a strong negotiating position.
I was wrong three years ago because the UK political class are a bunch of blundering incompetent idiots. According to @Sidney, Corbyn would have saved the day.
There are huge criticisms to be leveled at the EU. The number of trade deals post Brexit is a dead giveaway that certain interests sat on their arses for years. Aside from that, there are a great many other issuesâŚ
But as I always say, give me a democratic country where people donât say that. Everyone thinks their politicians are the worst.
The EU absolutely schooled the UK in negotiations. They actually have walked the Brexiteers up the plank of claiming that economic hardship is now âworth itâ because they cannot negotiated what htye claimed was a piece of piss. The EU as an institution have actually come out quite well of all of this. People now better understand it and itâs power. 2009-2015 was without question a shitshow for the EU and this has been a fillip theyâve needed.
Ireland is doing great mainly because of visionary leadership by the IDA which has attracted investment. Ireland is one of the most pro business countries in Europe, and one of the least impacted by bullshit from Brussels. Long may it continue although I would be fearful of what happens when the EU goes into recession.
Globalization as we have known it for the past few decades is dead. There will be no more transfer of high end products from the US to China. Europe would do well to follow the US example.
You can choose to believe what you like as always.
The Vision articulated by Vote Leave was to take back control of borders, laws and money.
The entire Vote Leave campaign was built on a fantasy. They overegged the pudding. You had the True Believers of Brexit for years like Dan Hannan saying that Britain would never leave the Single Market for years before. Norway was quoted.
That was quickly ditched during the campaign. Why? Because Norway follow laws they have no influence on and pay money for access to the Single Market. Taking Control of MONEY and LAWS doesnât exactly happen when you do that, does it?
So the fantasy was peddled. The âcake and eat itâ. Britain could do the impossible, without any military force. They could get unprecedented market access with no cost. And even more brilliantly, they could get access to a market without having to adhere to rules and regulations of said market. Britain would literally reinvent trading between nations.
That house of cards fell apart during the negotiations.
After those negotiations, you had the hilarious position of Brexiteers claiming you could have an unmanned border in Northern Ireland. These are the same people talking about taking back control of BORDERS, but no matter, that can be sidelined for other fantasy. The fantasy of technology which does not exist. We have chaps with Classics and Politics degrees claiming technology was no problem, when it didnât.
These are the visionaries. Basically spoofers.
I asked for your VISION of Brexit. What is it? I can at least respect a Michael Gove who admitted the need for compromise. He is a slug but someone who has always held a position on leaving the EU but recognizes that you canât get everything you want.
This is so stupid that it would take thousands of words to respond to it fully, to fully explain the many shades and depths and layers of its stupidity. Please donât anybody bother.
Ireland is doing great because we have unfettered access to the European market.
We can take in talented expats from a huge market with the click of the fingers.
The IDA did great work and still doâŚbut for someone who criticises someone else on Manufacturing you donât seem to get what underpins that economic success today. Itâs the talented Salespeople, Ad people etc from all over that have flooded Dublin to work for Google, Facebook, Hubspot, Microsoft et al. It is not the IDA industrial estate doing it like the 1990s.
As someone who rails against the utter shit talked on tax on here, I am always wary of the EU and encroachment of ideologues from the likes of the EU. But I also see balance and how utterly fucked Ireland would be without access to that market.
Again, republican Labane has stated that Ireland would be FINE with a hard Brexit because of all our exports to âBelgiumâ. Where were those exports pre the EU? What % did we have? Any idea on this at all?
The UKâs loss is Ireland gain, I couldnât give a fuck if the UK collapsed. Multinationals need access to Europe (whether EU or individual countries) and Ireland is an ideal spot for them, due to numerous factors. As I said long may it continue. The US, China, India, etc. will continue to want to do business in Europe and Ireland will be a preferred location, regardless of what the UK does. Will the UK stop buying Irish products if they leave the EU? Demand for Irish beef, dairy products, whiskey, etc will dry up?
I would argue the benefits of Brexit to Ireland outweigh the losses, as it will result in more international investment in Ireland and less in the UK. Nothing wrong with that in my view (as an Irish Republican).
You âcouldnât give a fuck if the UK collapsedâ but say the UK is fine with a bit of âvisionâ. You have yet to explain that âvisionâ. What is it? It is going like Norway and/or the Swiss? Is it a Hard Brexit?
A Hard Brexit, as I pointed out before, would be utterly shit for Ireland. You claimed (despite your overall hatred of the EU in international terms, itâs okay when you put the faux Ra hat on) that Ireland were fine because we traded âmoreâ with Belgium.
Youâve changed your tune on this now and said the UK would still buy Irish. Why would they? Why would they with âvisionaryâ leaders importing cheap beef from here, there and everywhere? Do you have any actual idea of the REAL economy?
You didnât say ânumerousâ factors on the Irish success story. You praised the IDA. I praise the IDA as one of the semi state/public sector organisations in Ireland with vision, but I actually articulated the ânumerous factorsâ. One of those is the EU, which you claim is a âfailureâ and will âcollapseâ. I am perfectly willing to say that the EU (or at least prominent people within) are jealous of US tech success and are willing to fuck Ireland under the bus for that. But I can see diplomacy and also EU Law (which along with learning about the ECHR was one of my least favourite topics in college) as mechanisms to fight that. And I can also see the overall picture of what the EU provides Ireland, from freedom of movement to market access. I find it BIZARRE that people want to talk about the collapse of the EU, it always seems to me to be just an easy target for every ill out there. As Brexit has proven, there is a lot more to it all than that. Iâm glad I have had the opportunity to live in free and fair locations like the US and EU. Give me that any day.
