Clare v Cork - GAA Hurling All Ireland Senior Championship 2013 Final - Replay

The U21 final is a bit of a distraction. Whereas previously it would have been massive, the fact that we’re 1/66 favourites allied to the fact that we won it last year certainly diminishes the immediate significance of it.

But you’re veering into psychological territory here and in truth it’s impossible to tell how it will affect the players. Most likely it’ll make no difference. The real issue is coming through it with no injuries and no suspensions. Would be a huge blow to lose any of the four lads as they’re all key players on the senior team.

They went into a recovery session and then straight to bed after beating Tipp in the Munster final and looked fine for the Galway game, so hopefully it won’t be too difficult to get the bodies right again. Mentally I don’t think we should be too worried about them.

Why couldn’t something be done about it? They knew Clare were in both finals. Leave next week free. Put 21 on Saturday week. It would have no effect on anyone as neither county give a fuck about football.

Anyway it is what it is now.

I wouldn’t give him too much credit for the 21 thing, it really was the only sensible thing to do. He deserves heaps of praise for the way his team is turned out, but that’s a no-brainer in a small county and with the amount of 21’s on Senior.

[quote=“Watch The Break, post: 829459, member: 260”]The U21 final is a bit of a distraction. Whereas previously it would have been massive, the fact that we’re 1/66 favourites allied to the fact that we won it last year certainly diminishes the immediate significance of it.

But you’re veering into psychological territory here and in truth it’s impossible to tell how it will affect the players. Most likely it’ll make no difference. The real issue is coming through it with no injuries and no suspensions. Would be a huge blow to lose any of the four lads as they’re all key players on the senior team.

They went into a recovery session and then straight to bed after beating Tipp in the Munster final and looked fine for the Galway game, so hopefully it won’t be too difficult to get the bodies right again. Mentally I don’t think we should be too worried about them.[/quote]

I agree, the Clare teams mindset is very impressive. There is a slight chance of even receiving a trophy as been seen as reward which can take fellas down a notch.

But I think it’s more to do with physical preperation. I think Cork have an edge now. They probably have it anyway as they know there is alot more in them and they were tactically and mentally Ill-prepared Sunday. That’s won’t happen again.

The surprising thing has been how fresh they have been despite the quantity of big games. The players being overtrained would have been a fear with Davy but they’ve got sharper and more energetic as the season has gone on which is a very significant achievement. Especially with players like Kelly, Galvin, and Podge who have a staggering work rate.

It’s not hard to stay fresh in IC GAA these days. In fact it’s very very easy. I’d compare it to amateur boxing. You have a fight every few weeks I realise there are anomalies, but in general it’s very simple.

@TreatyStones maybe you should get another coach if you’re not able to stay fresh fella.

Not shared with the clubs. I would say he wishes 21s were beaten earlier. If you can play a 21s game you can play a club game

I’m told nothing could be done about it and I’m taking that at face value. You can see why the ladies matches couldn’t be moved. As for the 21s game, I don’t know, perhaps it has something to do with the sponsors but apparently moving it wasn’t an option. Anyway, I think it’s not a huge deal and both teams will get on with it.

Yeah but you can’t play em all.

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 829468, member: 273”]I agree, the Clare teams mindset is very impressive. There is a slight chance of even receiving a trophy as been seen as reward which can take fellas down a notch.

But I think it’s more to do with physical preperation. I think Cork have an edge now. They probably have it anyway as they know there is alot more in them and they were tactically and mentally Ill-prepared Sunday. That’s won’t happen again.[/quote]

Cork have the edge physically or in general?

If I was a Cork fan I’d be more worried about the sharpness of their hurling than anything else. Coming into the game, the general attitude was that Cork had played a much faster game against Dublin and had showed better fundamentals in that game than Clare had against Limerick. But really it was Clare’s hurling that was far better on the day whereas Cork looked to be struggling with the intensity of the Clare pressure.

On the other hand, they were still extremely efficient with their chances which doesn’t suggest that the heads weren’t right. I don’t think they’d have had the composure to hit only three wides and work goal chances when they needed them if it was a case of mental collapse.

Tactically the puckout is the centre-piece for the replay. Cork got 15 points against Dublin in the first half and only 16 in total against Clare in large part because of the difference in the effectiveness of the puckout. We would not have expected to dominate in the air as we did and we would have seen a huge risk in facing the Cork puckout without a sweeping defender behind the break.

That threat never really materialised because with the exception of Kearney, no Cork player was beating his opponent to the break on those occasions the ball did go through the line. Similarly the puckouts with a lower trajectory only rarely found the hands of Harnedy or Cronin at least in part because that’s a very difficult puckout to consistently execute.

Cork will have two main ways of reacting to this the next day. They gamble on Ryan and Bugler not being as effective in the air again, and on Clare not being so much sharper on the breaks again. Or they focus on finding backs with the puckout, drawing the Clare midfield in and creating space in front of their half-forward line to make that low trajectory ball less of a risk.

Success in any respect would require them to hurl much better than they did in Sunday and that’s the real question. If Cork don’t show improvement on that fundamental technical level then tactically it’s going to be difficult to change anything. No tactics can make up for fumbling the ball under pressure or being beaten to breaks. If they do improve, then they’ve every reason to be confident as they just scored 3-16 while not hurling that well at all.

Personally I don’t know how much improvement is there or even if Cork under-performing is the right way to read it. Limerick looked very similar to Cork against Clare but were probably denied the goals because of the presence of the sweeper. Similarly they saw themselves as not having turned up and their bigger names were regarded as having under-performed. I don’t really believe that’s entirely accurate, nor is it entirely plausible that Cork and Limerick both under-performed in such similar ways. But I guess time will tell. With such fine margins it doesn’t take a whole lot of movement either way to dramatically change the outcome.

I thought they tired noticeably at end of the final. Understandably. Also no sub introduced until about 60 minutes

WTB, Cork actually didn’t do to bad on their own puck outs. I forget where I read it today but they actually were modestly successful on their own puckouts given that at this level most half back lines would win about 60% of opposition puck outs. It was the clearances from Nash and the other backs in general play that in particular that Bugler and Ryan cleaned up on.

[quote=“Watch The Break, post: 829484, member: 260”]Cork have the edge physically or in general?

If I was a Cork fan I’d be more worried about the sharpness of their hurling than anything else. Coming into the game, the general attitude was that Cork had played a much faster game against Dublin and had showed better fundamentals in that game than Clare had against Limerick. But really it was Clare’s hurling that was far better on the day whereas Cork looked to be struggling with the intensity of the Clare pressure.

On the other hand, they were still extremely efficient with their chances which doesn’t suggest that the heads weren’t right. I don’t think they’d have had the composure to hit only three wides and work goal chances when they needed them if it was a case of mental collapse.

Tactically the puckout is the centre-piece for the replay. Cork got 15 points against Dublin in the first half and only 16 in total against Clare in large part because of the difference in the effectiveness of the puckout. We would not have expected to dominate in the air as we did and we would have seen a huge risk in facing the Cork puckout without a sweeping defender behind the break.

That threat never really materialised because with the exception of Kearney, no Cork player was beating his opponent to the break on those occasions the ball did go through the line. Similarly the puckouts with a lower trajectory only rarely found the hands of Harnedy or Cronin at least in part because that’s a very difficult puckout to consistently execute.

Cork will have two main ways of reacting to this the next day. They gamble on Ryan and Bugler not being as effective in the air again, and on Clare not being so much sharper on the breaks again. Or they focus on finding backs with the puckout, drawing the Clare midfield in and creating space in front of their half-forward line to make that low trajectory ball less of a risk.

Success in any respect would require them to hurl much better than they did in Sunday and that’s the real question. If Cork don’t show improvement on that fundamental technical level then tactically it’s going to be difficult to change anything. No tactics can make up for fumbling the ball under pressure or being beaten to breaks. If they do improve, then they’ve every reason to be confident as they just scored 3-16 while not hurling that well at all.

Personally I don’t know how much improvement is there or even if Cork under-performing is the right way to read it. Limerick looked very similar to Cork against Clare but were probably denied the goals because of the presence of the sweeper. Similarly they saw themselves as not having turned up and their bigger names were regarded as having under-performed. I don’t really believe that’s entirely accurate, nor is it entirely plausible that Cork and Limerick both under-performed in such similar ways. But I guess time will tell. With such fine margins it doesn’t take a whole lot of movement either way to dramatically change the outcome.[/quote]

I don’t think nor did I say they mentally collapsed. They were not fully prepared for the intensity of the game. I think this may be directly related to training. Cork may have set up training to play against 7 backs. This possibly led to alot of space at training. With such gaps in GAA I don’t think your last games intensity is as important as is made out. Training and getting to the right pitch in training is huge. I have felt all along there is very little between the teams and it would be a game of its own. I also made mention a few time of my worry about the tit for tat nature of the games between these teams as Clare had more to learn from the last meeting. That’s out the window now.

I can’t understand anyone thinking Cork haven’t massive improvement in them. This yeat Cork play 10 times better against this very Clare team. Clare are not as good as you think they are. They played really well Sunday, but alot of their main men had stormers. That’s rare, and they still didn’t win. That alone tells a big story. This horse shit about the ref keeping Cork in it is beyond stupid. I’ve watched it 3 times and the ref was shit for both teams. Depending on your persuasion you could call it either way who he favoured. Of course he didn’t favour Either team, mostly he just wasn’t up to the game.

[quote=“Watch The Break, post: 829484, member: 260”]Cork have the edge physically or in general?

If I was a Cork fan I’d be more worried about the sharpness of their hurling than anything else. Coming into the game, the general attitude was that Cork had played a much faster game against Dublin and had showed better fundamentals in that game than Clare had against Limerick. But really it was Clare’s hurling that was far better on the day whereas Cork looked to be struggling with the intensity of the Clare pressure.

On the other hand, they were still extremely efficient with their chances which doesn’t suggest that the heads weren’t right. I don’t think they’d have had the composure to hit only three wides and work goal chances when they needed them if it was a case of mental collapse.

Tactically the puckout is the centre-piece for the replay. Cork got 15 points against Dublin in the first half and only 16 in total against Clare in large part because of the difference in the effectiveness of the puckout. We would not have expected to dominate in the air as we did and we would have seen a huge risk in facing the Cork puckout without a sweeping defender behind the break.

That threat never really materialised because with the exception of Kearney, no Cork player was beating his opponent to the break on those occasions the ball did go through the line. Similarly the puckouts with a lower trajectory only rarely found the hands of Harnedy or Cronin at least in part because that’s a very difficult puckout to consistently execute.

Cork will have two main ways of reacting to this the next day. They gamble on Ryan and Bugler not being as effective in the air again, and on Clare not being so much sharper on the breaks again. Or they focus on finding backs with the puckout, drawing the Clare midfield in and creating space in front of their half-forward line to make that low trajectory ball less of a risk.

Success in any respect would require them to hurl much better than they did in Sunday and that’s the real question. If Cork don’t show improvement on that fundamental technical level then tactically it’s going to be difficult to change anything. No tactics can make up for fumbling the ball under pressure or being beaten to breaks. If they do improve, then they’ve every reason to be confident as they just scored 3-16 while not hurling that well at all.

Personally I don’t know how much improvement is there or even if Cork under-performing is the right way to read it. Limerick looked very similar to Cork against Clare but were probably denied the goals because of the presence of the sweeper. Similarly they saw themselves as not having turned up and their bigger names were regarded as having under-performed. I don’t really believe that’s entirely accurate, nor is it entirely plausible that Cork and Limerick both under-performed in such similar ways. But I guess time will tell. With such fine margins it doesn’t take a whole lot of movement either way to dramatically change the outcome.[/quote]

I thought they would revert to type with their puckouts as the game wore on and they were getting little joy. Cork obviously looked at this as a major Clare weakness going on the Limerick game and put all their eggs in one basket, which is surprising. Davy should get great credit for pre-empting this and doing away with the sweeper… I thought Cork were at their best all year when working the ball up the field in this fashion, though I think you are right in saying Cork could not live with the Clare pressure/movement and I don’t know how they adjust to this so easily for the next day. Still, if you look at the first 5 or so minutes of the second half, when I expected Cork to come out all guns blazing, they were very pedestrian and made some very soft turnovers. It’s hard to pinpoint where exactly Cork were off, I think it’s a little of what Kev is saying, and their heads were not 100% but Clare’s pressure and movement were on another level and one I don’t know if they can counter act the next day out either. I think Cork and JBM have a shite load of work to do, whereas Clare can go out and cut loose next week and clear their heads.

I have read numerous times that no Cork player deserved to be considered as one of the best players.

Pat Horgan was absolutely superb. He was remarkably efficient and the skill and speed he showed on that last point was like it was in first minute.

I absolutely concede Clare hurled more consistently over the game, but the match ended in a draw. The result is pretty important really isn’t it?

If this happened, and I doubt it, it would have been a massive oversight on the part of the Cork management.

It’s hard to believe alright, but they didn’t seem to have a plan B on the day.

[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 829495, member: 273”]I have read numerous times that no Cork player deserved to be considered as one of the best players.

Pat Horgan was absolutely superb. He was remarkably efficient and the skill and speed he showed on that last point was like it was in first minute.
[/quote]
Agree on Horgan and Shane O Neill too I thought(regardless of whether he should have been sent off). Honan is clearly no match for him, would be interesting to see if McInerny could make a difference. If Clare are to win the next day their gonna need goals.

Alot of teams and managers take a view of having a Plan A and being very good at it. When you have only 2-3 weeks to prepare you can’t really adjust too much.

Having said that JBM sets his teams up to just hurl well and try to play it as they see it as much as is sensible. In fairness Clare had set up the same way nearly all year. What they did was risky, but they replaced strategy with work rate, incredible work rate. Cork just didn’t work hard enough or win enough 1v1’s. if they improvethat to closely replicate Clare I see them winning and pulling away near the end.

Yeah Clare just swarmed around Cork and Gavin’s style of refereeing allowed that. It is no advantage when you have a free taker like Horgan to hit a ball with somebody hanging off you.

Harnedy hurt Clare in the Munster semi final. They targeted him on Sunday. Took Cork til half way through second half to address that If he is fit I think Cian McCarthy will start next day as he brings more of an edge and allow Harnedy out to middle where harder to mark.

I would expect Cork to have two or three personnel changes and two or three positional changes. Harder for Clare as who played poorly.