People are passing the ball to the forwards rather than lumping it in is the bigger change
Like I said he gave phenomenal performances in those years including those games but he was also held on other days. Galway 03, Cork 06, Limerick 07.
I don’t think this debate is anywhere near as clear cut as others seem to think that’s all.
Both their legacies will be tainted by the fact that they played for their counties in eras where Waterford regularly bested them.
3 Likes
He scored well enough against Limerick in 2007, 7 points from play across the three games
Incorrect.
2013 - 8 scores of 23 against Clare
4 of 15 against Limerick (lost)
11 of 19 against Kilkenny
1-07 of 1-24 against Dublin
10 of 3-16 against Clare
9 of 3-16 against Clare
They’ve been heavily reliant on him for a long time now
He’s a freetaker mate, that’s how it works, they get more of the scores. Horgan had the odd good game but was generally easily held by good corner backs for the majority of his career
Did Eoin Kelly not hit frees or something. Horgan generally is good for 2 or 3 scores on a bad day from play
He is now. He wasn’t always.
Horgan has been phenomenal now for way more than 2 years.
He gave some display in defeat to Waterford in 2017.
I think this debate is much of a muchness.
that was 7 years ago and he scored every day from play when they got to the AIF
For all the games Kelly played against Limerick(some very poor) he only scored 1 (wan) goal from play if not total against them, the 2009 semi final where any forward would have got one.
I love the way people use stats to back up an argument as if it should be final arbiter.
Horgan pre 2017 was a very wishy washy forward with great wrists and an excellent free taker. Even in 2013 he his totals relied heavily on frees. An excellent finisher but had little else to his game at that point and matches often passed him by.
The Wexford defeat in 2016 was a real low point and he certainly changed his game and has become far more influential in open play and has hurled with far greater consistency. Kelly between 2001 and 2006 was a constant presence who despite not being overly quick or paced could win ball whatever way it came and invariably stick it over the bar. He was a one man forward line with a lot of workmanlike tipp lads around him. While some will argue Horgan is carrying the Cork forwards they actually have 4 or 5 other talented forwards with Horgan if somewhat inconsistent.
1 Like
in 57 Championship games Pat Horgan scored 21 goals and 403 points
in 64 Championship games Eoin Kelly scored 21 goals and 369 points
Good point. Cork actually have good forwards if maybe one or two of them are a bit flaky, the issue is at the other end
Were either of them as good as Flynn?
Hoggy is a lovely, skilful hurler; wrists are as good as anyone and in the past few seasons upped his game completely.
But it’s Eoin Kelly every day of the week for me. And that’s not bringing All Irelands into it which I think is unfair in this context.
1 Like
01 when they won the All Ireland
Mark O’Leary was class.
John Carroll was of his time
you had a young Lar and Declan Ryan as well.
In 2001 John Carroll played in the backs in the Munster championship . He got roasted by Sean O Connor in Munster final . He was moved up front thereafter
Both very good forwards but both a few notches below the level of Henry Shefflin and Joe Canning.
1 Like