[quote=“count of monte cristo, post: 739750, member: 348”]Our coach at present has a fitness training background we’ve had both army man and PE teacher in the past.
Generally copy inter county weights program, and do them with club based inter county players, who would instruct me on the proper technique and form.
You are obviously a little out of touch re the rural Gaa scene, Chairmen are far more concerned with money than with players. They still want success but feel that lads should be “ran the shite out of” it’s a different generation.
There’s always going to be differences of opinion about how to get players fitter and stronger but if they are able to play football these things matter a little less.
I feel clubs are becoming far too concerned with conditioning and are turning their backs on the skills this is the “coaching” aspect of the game which is most important, to develop a players skill level.[/quote]
Fuckin army men, hated the sight of the lunatics :guns:
[quote=“count of monte cristo, post: 739716, member: 348”]here’s the issue caoimhaoin, you give me advice, I then go to my club training session and listen to my coach, who gives different advice ( yes, he is a 15 year experienced S&C coach) but as it’s a team session im not going to give out.
[quote=“The Runt, post: 739758, member: 181”]Kev is there a chance if I you put your methods in front of another S&C coach equally as qualified as yourself he would dismiss them as rubbish?
I’ve noticed that S&C and fitness coaches they are always very dismissive of others work, there is very rarely a middle ground.
“I can see what he was doing with ye there, but I would have done it a little different”
Instead it’s generally:
“that’s madness, he doesn’t have a clue if that’s what he was doing”[/quote]
Probably…
But the core exercises for building strength are nearly all the same and always have been so you would imagine there should not be much variation (for the same sport ). It’s how they are incorporated into a program that will differ- Different people will have notions of when a team should be working on x,y and z and that seems to be the main problem. Look at Limerick and Clare last year- Davey had them doing laps of Munster at half three in the morning in December, while Limerick were lashing back pints. Limerick then gassed against Clare in the league final and again against Tipperary in June only to be motoring in July while Clare seemed to fade. It’s all about goals and expectations I guess but the basics are the same for everyone.
But the core exercises for building strength are nearly all the same and always have been so you would imagine there should not be much variation (for the same sport ). It’s how they are incorporated into a program that will differ- Different people will have notions of when a team should be working on x,y and z and that seems to be the main problem. Look at Limerick and Clare last year- Davey had them doing laps of Munster at half three in the morning in December, while Limerick were lashing back pints. Limerick then gassed against Clare in the league final and again against Tipperary in June only to be motoring in July while Clare seemed to fade. It’s all about goals and expectations I guess but the basics are the same for everyone.[/quote]
So what’s the problem with doing lots of core orientated circuits in January/Feb to build up the core?
Well you need to walk before you can run, Runt. As discussed earlier, each guy should really have a specific plan working on his own weaknesses and learn how to do certain exercises properly to get the best out of them and not injure themselves… When everyone is somewhat on a level playing field you can incorporate a program for all, that should replicate exercises valid to the sport you are playing. If fella’s are off doing a specific program on their own time and ye are using training time for these circuits there is a danger of over doing it… I’m no expert but I imagine at this time of year you should be winding down from heavier weights and looking to more explosive exercises, again unless you’ve covered basics and specific weaknesses I dont know that fella’s will get the full benefit from it. But team sports is not my area… Kev has 15 years experience so I would take his word over your coach.
But good core work should stand to everyone and anyone playing sport.
[quote=“ChocolateMice, post: 739772, member: 168”]Well you need to walk before you can run, Runt. As discussed earlier, each guy should really have a specific plan working on his own weaknesses and learn how to do certain exercises properly to get the best out of them and not injure themselves… When everyone is somewhat on a level playing field you can incorporate a program for all, that should replicate exercises valid to the sport you are playing. If fella’s are off doing a specific program on their own time and ye are using training time for these circuits there is a danger of over doing it… I’m no expert but I imagine at this time of year you should be winding down from heavier weights and looking to more explosive exercises, again unless you’ve covered basics and specific weaknesses I dont know that fella’s will get the full benefit from it. But team sports is not my area… Kev has 15 years experience so I would take his word over your coach.
But good core work should stand to everyone and anyone playing sport.[/quote]
But that’s exactly what we are doing, a good group of them went away and did their own “heavy” weights between November - Feb. We are now back as a group doing more core based circuits and aerobic work. Fellas are still tipping away at the gym but most would have reduced it once or twice a week, just to keep ticking over.
How many club coaches have to be going around tailoring sessions to suit a few individuals. All well and good if you’re a semi professional or pro team where you have access to players 4/5 days a week. But if you are a regular club coach you’ll have access to your players for 90mins 2 or 3 times a week.
[quote=“count of monte cristo, post: 739750, member: 348”]Our coach at present has a fitness training background we’ve had both army man and PE teacher in the past.
Generally copy inter county weights program, and do them with club based inter county players, who would instruct me on the proper technique and form.
You are obviously a little out of touch re the rural Gaa scene, Chairmen are far more concerned with money than with players. They still want success but feel that lads should be “ran the shite out of” it’s a different generation.
There’s always going to be differences of opinion about how to get players fitter and stronger but if they are able to play football these things matter a little less.
I feel clubs are becoming far too concerned with conditioning and are turning their backs on the skills this is the “coaching” aspect of the game which is most important, to develop a players skill level.[/quote]
Copying any gym program is precarious at best. Do these County players all have the exact same program? If so that’s farcical in this day and age and the County Board (and the players an county in general) are being robbed. It’s lazy and unprofessional. You simply can’t have a one cap fits all with 30 blokes. What makes it worse is even further people copying it. Any clown can put together a program, it could take less than an hour to do a general program for the year. It also has to meet well with the tactics of the coach and the field based conditioning. This is all easily done, anything less than that is just not good enough at IC level IMO and is being done at many clubs around the country.
In the skills, yes, I absolutely agree. But it all has to start with the kids, that’s where you set your stall out skills wise. On top of that at 14-15 you can start introducing movements to help the kids as an introduction to conditioning. S&C is not something to think about every January, it’s an on going process.
Army guys tend to be too hard, PE teachers tend to be too soft. It’s not easy to find good GAA S&C coaches but theydo exist, Ireland has one of the best S&C private courses in the world and from what I have found the only S&C degree anywhere. So there is quite a few very good guys out there, it’s just finding them.
Army guys tend to be too hard, PE teachers tend to be too soft. It’s not easy to find good GAA S&C coaches but theydo exist, Ireland has one of the best S&C private courses in the world and from what I have found the only S&C degree anywhere. So there is quite a few very good guys out there, it’s just finding them.[/quote]
Ah here. So you are saying Ireland is the only country in the world offering S&C degrees?
What are the good courses in Ireland?
[quote=“The Runt, post: 739787, member: 181”]Ah here. So you are saying Ireland is the only country in the world offering S&C degrees?
What are the good courses in Ireland?[/quote]
I know UL offer a one year S&C masters accreditied by NSCA (Two years part time).
[quote=“The Runt, post: 739758, member: 181”]Kev is there a chance if I you put your methods in front of another S&C coach equally as qualified as yourself he would dismiss them as rubbish?
I’ve noticed that S&C and fitness coaches they are always very dismissive of others work, there is very rarely a middle ground.
“I can see what he was doing with ye there, but I would have done it a little different”
Instead it’s generally:
“that’s madness, he doesn’t have a clue if that’s what he was doing”[/quote]
I’m not dismissing any S&C here, I jve not worked with them. I’m dismissing alot of what you guys do. From the sounds of what your lot are doin it’s backwards, cart before the horse.
I doubt many of the coaches discussed here by yourselves are S&C coaches. Most just label themselves that these days, or the new one is Athletic Performance Coach.
I see some awful dangerous stuff going on over here in gyms. Guys getting overweight 40 year olds to do MMA circuits. The industry is full of bad coaching and dick heads, it’s just the way
Kev…GAA is an arms race…one team does something that works for them and every other team adopts it…regardless of whether they have the same type of player at their disposal or not…bigger, fitter, stronger…i’ve argued for years that it is ridiculous trianing every player the same as the positions are so different…its only now teams are realising this…
No offence but a lot of terrible footballers go into coaching when they finish playing without every really fully understanding the game in the first place…they were stoppers when they played and they are stoppers when they coach…they encourage every negative aspect of the game instead of the positive… they watch unrelated sports like rugby and get ideas to the detriment of the game…
also terms like ‘keep the scoreboard ticking’ or ‘shot selection’ are bandied about in GAA…what the fook ???..scoreboard ticking as if the opposition besieged your goal for the whole game without u ever being able to get up the field to get a score…that happens in rugby on your own try line alright but GAA is end to end…shot selection …whats that??.. talk to your caddie and dig into your golfbag when your clean through on goal to see what shot u’ll play… I mean u have a goalkeeper having to come out of goals as nobody else can kick a ball over the bar from 45 yards out yet they’re talking about shot selection…if your coached right with a football you won’t have to think what shot to select in certain situations…
[quote=“The Runt, post: 739787, member: 181”]Ah here. So you are saying Ireland is the only country in the world offering S&C degrees?
What are the good courses in Ireland?[/quote]
Ya most S&C coaches get qualified thru a Masters or an external course. There are very few straight S&C degrees. Might be one in England, but last time I looked no undergraduate.
There is Masters in DCU & UL, the Setanta College course run privately and thru LIT is what I have and is comparable and better than anything else in the world. I did Level 1&2 here thru the ASCA and it’s a poor relation to the Setanta College. The programs I have read and the people I have met here from one Uni in particular would scare you. I’ll give one example, the previous Strength Coach where I am left alot of the programs from last yer lying around. On a 3 day in season strength program (too much anyway) he had on the day 2 (after 6 other exercises were complete) 4 sets of 12 of Clean and jerks. Now anyone with an ounce of weight lifting knowledge knows that’s crazy. This guy has a Masters from ECU, which is twinned funny enough with UL.
THe problem is guys get all these qualifications but don’t get one vital one, a weightlifting one. That’s where you learn about technique and the stress the different exercises have on you muscles and nervous system. Also people write up programs but don’t actually do half the exercises themselves and don’t understand the programs they are writing.
Qualifications are only a small part of the battle. I’m lucky in a way, I got shiploads of experience before I got qualified specifically in S&C. I made alot of the mistakes early.
[quote=“scumpot, post: 739796, member: 182”]Kev…GAA is an arms race…one team does something that works for them and every other team adopts it…regardless of whether they have the same type of player at their disposal or not…bigger, fitter, stronger…i’ve argued for years that it is ridiculous trianing every player the same as the positions are so different…its only now teams are realising this…
No offence but a lot of terrible footballers go into coaching when they finish playing without every really fully understanding the game in the first place…they were stoppers when they played and they are stoppers when they coach…they encourage every negative aspect of the game instead of the positive… they watch unrelated sports like rugby and get ideas to the detriment of the game…
also terms like ‘keep the scoreboard ticking’ or ‘shot selection’ are bandied about in GAA…what the fook ???..scoreboard ticking as if the opposition besieged your goal for the whole game without u ever being able to get up the field to get a score…that happens in rugby on your own try line alright but GAA is end to end…shot selection …whats that??.. talk to your caddie and dig into your golfbag when your clean through on goal to see what shot u’ll play… I mean u have a goalkeeper having to come out of goals as nobody else can kick a ball over the bar from 45 yards out yet they’re talking about shot selection…if your coached right with a football you won’t have to think what shot to select in certain situations…[/quote]
Firstly, to appease your cheap shot, there is no doubt I am a better coach than a player, but it’s very narrow minded to dismiss poor footballers as good coaches. Being a good coach has more to do with emotional intelligence than any physical capabilities.
Other than that I don’t really agree with you. Yes teams copy each other, nut generally the best footballers win the All Ireland on any given year. Very rarely can that be disputed.
Football is a far better spectacle nowadays than it ever was, but Old moans like you will always refuse to see that.
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 739805, member: 273”]Firstly, to appease your cheap shot, there is no doubt I am a better coach than a player, but it’s very narrow minded to dismiss poor footballers as good coaches. Being a good coach has more to do with emotional intelligence than any physical capabilities.
Other than that I don’t really agree with you. Yes teams copy each other, nut generally the best footballers win the All Ireland on any given year. Very rarely can that be disputed.
Football is a far better spectacle nowadays than it ever was, but Old moans like you will always refuse to see that.[/quote]
great to have you back pal…
PS i don’t think my views on training players differently regarding the position they play would make me an ‘Old Moan’…
[quote=“caoimhaoin, post: 739784, member: 273”]Copying any gym program is precarious at best. Do these County players all have the exact same program? If so that’s farcical in this day and age and the County Board (and the players an county in general) are being robbed. It’s lazy and unprofessional. You simply can’t have a one cap fits all with 30 blokes. What makes it worse is even further people copying it. Any clown can put together a program, it could take less than an hour to do a general program for the year. It also has to meet well with the tactics of the coach and the field based conditioning. This is all easily done, anything less than that is just not good enough at IC level IMO and is being done at many clubs around the country.
In the skills, yes, I absolutely agree. But it all has to start with the kids, that’s where you set your stall out skills wise. On top of that at 14-15 you can start introducing movements to help the kids as an introduction to conditioning. S&C is not something to think about every January, it’s an on going process.
Army guys tend to be too hard, PE teachers tend to be too soft. It’s not easy to find good GAA S&C coaches but theydo exist, Ireland has one of the best S&C private courses in the world and from what I have found the only S&C degree anywhere. So there is quite a few very good guys out there, it’s just finding them.[/quote]
No they all have different programs due to different needs at different positions and differing ability,
