will you ever answer a fucking question?
youâre worse than John Delaney in front of the committee
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A big proud general Lee on his horse and a slave in bondage beside him? Thatâd be a smashing image would it? And the four lads liking the post. Go away you gobdaw.
What are you trying to manoeuvre here now? Would the Republican in me object to the destruction of Nelsons pillar?
I find it really weird the way people will go to such lengths to defend the celebration of slavery.
It would almost make you think they have a big racism problem.
This post is a great advertisement for UL.
The facts are that Mother Theresa left the South in awful debt, spending was out of control.
Thereâs no absolute answer to this and obviously economics plays a massive role but I think youâre underestimating the role that plain old morality and/or Christianity had on the northern mindset. Lincoln, Walt Whitman, any Northerner from the era you can think of. But perhaps it was the development of capitalism and the decreasing reliance on slavery that allowed them to be honest with their conscience. Also I donât for a second accept this notion of the North wanting to maliciously destroy the southern economy just to remove a competitor. Ultimately the 2 economies were linked. Also the expansion of slavery to the west was nearly the most bitter and divisive thing of all.
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Would you believe in a Marxist interpretation of history, not in that youâre pro-communist but that economics is the best way to understand why people believe the things they do?
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Would you go along with the idea of the common southern man being outrageously manipulated by the tiny minority of huge slave owners? Your graphs make it look like the white south was getting more and more unequal.
I asked you a question. Are there any statues, anywhere , that you would support or have supported the removal of?
It should be easy to answer.
The excuse trotted out is that âwe shouldnât erase our historyâ. Nobodyâs erasing any history, you canât erase history, you donât erase history by removing a fucking statue.
And if youâre to take that line, it means you believe that every statue in the world should never, ever be removed.
Itâs not a celebration of racism and you know that.
Can I ask you a question Sidney?
If you think Leeâs statue should be removed, do you also think Mount Rushmore should be filled in or the faces dynamited?
Economics is certainly a very important element - if not the main element. Even romantic ideals of republicanism and nationalism were borne out of economic frustration
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What question?
I only joined the debate to ask @Watchyourtoes if every statue or picture or representation has to be kept up but I canât get an answer out of him at all. He said they were all history and we canât delete history but surely we can take down some of them? Iâd say we can take down statues of Franco and pictures of Jimmy saville in the bbc and that type of thing but some lads think pictures of Jimmy saville are history so they have to stay put.
Then a load of lads went bananas and started saying that slavery wasnât much an issue at and didnât some lad up the way do something just as bad and that type of thing.
Thatâs probably a fair summation.
Many people think it is, to be honest I canât really understand why anybody would think any different except through wilful stupidity and delusion - a statue is obviously meant to glorify a person and what they stood for, which in Leeâs clase was black slavery, which is inherently racist, wouldnât you agree?
The wider context of these confederate statues is that they celebrate something which is still relevant, still current and still raw today.
Compare Irish freedom and Scottish freedom. Did the Scottish refuse independence because of economics or because theyâre a pack of dour, lifeless, stingy hateful cunts or is it all just the same?
Ooft.
Agreed - and thatâs why I would be of the opinion that such issues should be used to educate instead of eradicate
Lee was anti slavery Seriously Sidney itâs well known and accepted, his reasons for leading the army of Northern Virginia were out of his loyalty to his home state regardless of itâs political stance to slavery.
Both kid⌠you cant remove emotion from it either - but who dictates emotion? like you intimated above, quite often the mob are manipulated by those who have most to gain.
Native Americans even served with the confederation as they hated the union from taking their lands and slaughtering their ppl
I love how people unthinkingly trot out these grand statements which completely fall apart when subjected to even a cursory examination.
To these simpletons, moving a statue to a museum isnât moving a statue to a museum, itâs âerasing historyâ, an âattack on their whole way of lifeâ, or some other such blusterous bullshit.
If getting rid of the confederate flag which symbolised slavery, or a confederate general who fought for slavery is an âattackâ on somebodyâs âway of lifeâ, itâs a pretty fucking sad reflection on that personâs way of life, and it would be best for everybody if that âway of lifeâ was got rid of.
Mount Rushmore, yay or nay?
Thatâs âmarketplace of ideasâ nonsense.
The reality is public statues of people who fought for slavery or other inherently racist illegitimate âcausesâ become rallying points for actual far right racist extremists to gather and spread fascism, now.